Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Discussion about jobs in Asia inc. Middle East

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Murphy
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Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by Murphy » 23 Mar 2015, 01:46

Would you work for a company that only hires white native English speaking teachers as a matter of policy? Would you turn down a job offer from the same company in China if they offer you 20,000 a month? At what price do you abandon your personal ethics? I ask this because I found the below posted at an expat forum about Pearson and their almighty "Wall Street English" brand. What I find a bit unsettling is that American teachers that would be protesting them back in America are collecting paychecks from them here in China...

"Anyone of color, including Latin Americans need not apply at Wall Street English because they have a very sneaky way of hiring only white people these days. No matter how qualified you may be with education degrees, teaching experience, and TEFL certificates, if you are not a white American, Canadian, Brit, or Aussie they won't hire you and one of their HR managers, Carlos Cortes even says so verbally and in emails, in a clever round-about way. Carlos himself is Latino but advises his staff not to hire Latino Americans. I have the proof and will be posting it on Weibo and here at Beijinger if he does not publicly apologize for his blatant job discrimination. Yeah, we know this is China Carlos, but YOU are an American citizen violating equal rights laws! Go ahead and deny it Carlos - I dare you. I recorded one of your former HR employees saying that you told her and others in the HR office "We only want white native English speakers." Does that ring any bells for you Carlos? Does Pearson CEO John Fallon approve of this white policy or is he the one who ordered it? Damn, this Fallon guy sure is white!"

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2015/ ... eir-racism

FYI: Wall Street English is owned by a public company called Pearson-Longman trading on the NYSE under the ticker symbol of PSO

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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by Volunteer » 29 Mar 2015, 04:37

I think most all of China is racist. Where in China is it easy for a teacher of color to find a job? Let's be honest and civil about this. Can we really expect or compel a foreign country to have the same moral standards as ourselves. In a strange way, maybe its good not to have "political correctness" shoved down your throat. Still it would be nice if Wall Street would grow a pair and be diverse with their new hires.

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John V55
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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by John V55 » 05 Apr 2015, 14:15

I have some bad news for you folks back in the west. The whole of Asia is racist, not just the schools. OK, wipe eyes, blow nose, deep sigh and get on with it? The diversity, equality and affirmative action is largely unknown outside the west. I DO work for a racist school here in China and worked for two more in Thailand – would I work for 20k in China? Of course I would, if I could find one that paid that much, but unless you have a Ph.D. in education it would most likely be a scam at 20k.

I abandoned my personal ethics a long time ago at around 20 years old. Ditch the backpacker water bottle, forget the high fives, life is not ‘awesome’ and if you’re going to go International, get used to some pretty big changes in your life. One of the biggest changes will be having to accept that the world is different outside the west. :)
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Awalls86
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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by Awalls86 » 06 Apr 2015, 17:44

What I find a bit unsettling is that American teachers that would be protesting them back in America are collecting paychecks from them here in China...
How do you know that these particular teachers would protest in America? Or is it patriotic idealism?

I'm sceptical of the amount of truth in ranty posts about particular employers and persons which may only amount to one person being unable to accept that a better candidate got the job, and blaming it on racism, sexism or some other -ism. The comment about the CEO being white gives me no sympathy for the original poster who seems to be suggesting that white is synonymous with racist. And this is then reinforced by a comment poster here talking about the "lilly white" board of directors.

Positive discrimination irritates me - merit is the only thing that should determine an appointment. If there are no black or female candidates worthy of appointment, so be it. Equally, for companies with no white men.

However, yes much of the east is known not to accept non-white teachers. The problem is far further spread than just one or two schools or individuals. So to me this just seems like a smear campaign of Wall Street English.

As John points out, life in the east is a bit different from the west. But... if you think you have it hard here, try talking to some local people. It might just give you an idea of why people from the west are loved and hated in almost equal measure.

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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by Astro » 15 Apr 2015, 09:50

John V55 wrote:I have some bad news for you folks back in the west. The whole of Asia is racist, not just the schools. OK, wipe eyes, blow nose, deep sigh and get on with it? The diversity, equality and affirmative action is largely unknown outside the west. I DO work for a racist school here in China and worked for two more in Thailand – would I work for 20k in China? Of course I would, if I could find one that paid that much, but unless you have a Ph.D. in education it would most likely be a scam at 20k.

I abandoned my personal ethics a long time ago at around 20 years old. Ditch the backpacker water bottle, forget the high fives, life is not ‘awesome’ and if you’re going to go International, get used to some pretty big changes in your life. One of the biggest changes will be having to accept that the world is different outside the west. :)
I think America is very racist in a far worse way. Chinese are not "in your face racist". They are polite and do not embarass or antagonize people of color. In the West our racism is often violent and hateful as we see with multiple race-fueled beatings and shootings of unarmed blacks for minor offenses by police forces all over the US. So your comments are fair nor accurate in my opinion, and perhaps a bit biased as well.

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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by John V55 » 15 Apr 2015, 12:36

I think America is very racist in a far worse way. Chinese are not "in your face racist". They are polite and do not embarass or antagonize people of color. In the West our racism is often violent and hateful as we see with multiple race-fueled beatings and shootings of unarmed blacks for minor offenses by police forces all over the US. So your comments are fair nor accurate in my opinion, and perhaps a bit biased as well.
The Chinese do not ‘embarrass or antagonize people of colour’, they just refuse them permission to work here. Let’s not use the PC phrase, ‘people of colour’, you mean blacks, don’t you.

I’m not American, so I can’t really comment on America. I do think though, that the racism card is often overplayed in the UK and Europe and has become a catchall for individual failure. Perhaps it’s my age group, but although I’m all for equal opportunities, I’m not for equal outcomes and I believe in failure for some. The Chinese are realists; do you think they might know something we don’t? Perhaps the Chinese are a little more aware of the damage multi-culturalism and affirmative race action has produced than those still looking for socialist equality in the west? I do not see white or black ghettos in Thailand or China; I do not see a huge ethnic minority gang or drug culture in China, or no-go areas . . . And that’s the way I like it.

400 British citizens emigrate every day
More than 400 British citizens are leaving the country every day in a drain on talent that is leading to the "disappearance" of skilled middle-class professionals, a senior Conservative MP has warned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... drain.html
‘White flight’ is now an officially accepted term in the UK.

We’re only a small country with a population of some 63 million. We’re not running to liberalised societies, we’re running away from them and places like Thailand and China with their strict social norms suits me just fine.
I’m a UK citizen, living in Thailand, working in China, married to a Thai and my ethnic roots are in the Baltic States – it doesn’t get more mixed up than that. :)

P.S. I don't see many personal avatars, am I the odd one out?
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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by kizil » 18 Apr 2015, 23:20

I don't have any experience with Wall Street English, so I can't speak to that, but I don't think there is any question regarding racism against non-whites being entrenched in Chinese society (remember the student protests in Beijing/Nanjing because foreign black students were dating Chinese women?) And I don't think it is just being "PC" to take issue with this, or to think twice about working at a business that would hire you because you are white. However, I have no idea what anyone is supposed to do about this, considering that foreign teacher are all outsiders. This is an honest question, but I don't have an answer.

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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by John V55 » 19 Apr 2015, 13:17

Outside of the west, the world is largely nationalist and those who have a problem with a lack of diversity, equality and the ‘melting pot’ theory will find it a very strange place. Those who are on a mission to change the world and its culture into that of the country they’ve just come from will face a backlash. Anti-racism laws, political correctness, gay pride marches and affirmative action are products of western society, not a world view consensus.
Wall Street is a business. It provides NES bright young things to teach English to ethnic bright young things. It’s in business to make money, not to worry about offending people, or conform to a western political ideology. The answer and choice is simple, those who can’t accept differences need to go elsewhere, or stay at home.
Personally, I’m fine if someone doesn’t like my ethnicity, nationality, age, or religion. I’d rather they tell me honestly and not make excuses, in which case I’ll simply go elsewhere. :)
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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by kizil » 22 Apr 2015, 17:36

John V55 wrote:Anti-racism laws, political correctness, gay pride marches and affirmative action are products of western society, not a world view consensus.

The answer and choice is simple, those who can’t accept differences need to go elsewhere, or stay at home.
I respect the point you're making. It bears pointing out, however, that while political correctness etc. etc. products of Western society, so too are most of the bureaucratic and government institutions, technologies, pop cultural products, etc. that are found worldwide (not to mention English language!). Western PC/leftist ideology is also everywhere: nationalist-minded young Chinese are quite comfortable talking about "decolonization" and "Eurocentrism" and so on (or direct Mandarin equivalents), the same language that Black power activists in the U.S. use. So, perhaps China and the rest of the world may be more porous with regard to Western values and ideologies than you are suggesting.

But nobody here was trying to stir up gay pride marches or PC language policing or whatever. When you are looking at racist employers in China, I think it is more a question of basic decency than of ideology (and of practicality, if you are non-White and looking for a job). Do you really want to work for a company that just wants your white face, or to contribute to this kind of business? And if you are not white but qualified to teach, is there any way to get around the barriers of racist employment practices? I think instead of just "going elsewhere or staying at home," it is worth considering these questions.
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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by kizil » 22 Apr 2015, 17:54

John V55 wrote: Wall Street is a business. It provides NES bright young things to teach English to ethnic bright young things. It’s in business to make money
I think you have a good point nestled in here. I suspect the reason that many English edubusinesses in China have racist hiring policies is precisely that they are in it for the money and make little pretense of prioritizing the education aspect. If you want to educate people, hire the best educators, but if you want to sell people something at a premium, then hire teachers who look like what the lowest common denominator think an "English teacher" looks like. In my experience, the employers who are most fastidious about race are the same ones who expect their teachers to be "dancing monkeys" in the classroom.
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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by John V55 » 23 Apr 2015, 00:14

I think you have a good point nestled in here. I suspect the reason that many English edubusinesses in China have racist hiring policies is precisely that they are in it for the money and make little pretense of prioritizing the education aspect. If you want to educate people, hire the best educators, but if you want to sell people something at a premium, then hire teachers who look like what the lowest common denominator think an "English teacher" looks like. In my experience, the employers who are most fastidious about race are the same ones who expect their teachers to be "dancing monkeys" in the classroom.
It takes most people from the west time to adjust to this thinking, which is why most recruiters emphasise knowledge of culture. Those who are NES, young, photogenic, blue eyed and blond/e are the most sought after, in the same way that you won’t find many black Africans teaching English in Sweden, or American whites teaching Swazi in South Africa. Thailand specifically is renowned for this, where appearance is everything, but China lags not far behind.

We are products, offering a service and are for sale according to the criteria of others. The ‘dancing monkeys’ scenario is very true and based on the above five point criterion, the less you score the more you will be expected to ‘perform’, be open to scams and command a lower salary. Conversely, in the UK with all its equality and anti-discrimination laws, I would be considered too old to teach (60) and under qualified (TEFL) – swings and roundabouts.
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Re: Is Wall Street English Or China Racist - Or Both?

Unread post by Brent_NZ » 15 Aug 2015, 21:14

The fact that racism is present in the hiring of foreign teachers comes as no surprise to me - neither do the two views that basically fall into 1.take a stand by at least refusing to work for such companies and 2.suck it up and accept that it exists.
What I do find interesting is that these developing countries are working so desperately hard to chase the "western culture" such as capitalism and English language etc. Surely to some extent if they really want to "join the rat race" they'll also have to deal with and accept certain other democratic modern ideas such as equality between races, colour, gender and sexuality?
Or is possible they can just cherry pick the elements they want? Personally, I doubt that in the long run...

Btw I am not white - or black. I'm Māori (Native New Zealander) so I'm a 'person of colour' - I wonder where I fit into this picture? Mmmm :?:
http://www.brentstrathdee-pehi.weebly.com

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