Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

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Bod
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Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by Bod »

I taught at a school in West China in a city called Xining. Now it had the name of a well known BuXi Ban that originally started in Taiwan so I guess they were a franchise, they said they were but the Head Office in Shanghai said they had no control over them meaning they could run it how they want and trust me they did while I was there. The very last f k up they did was to pay me an extra month by mistake and I only found out by the very angry a British person who was acting as management for the foreigners, acting being the operative word there. He went off on a rant and sent a torrent of abuse saying I was a thief etc, like I had actually stolen it from them rather than their accountant making the mistake.

Now for those of you who have worked in China I presume you linked your wechat to the chinese bank account so things could be bought things easily. I had that setup anyway but when I got back to England I removed the connection as I wasn't going to be returning to China any time soon so there was no way to pay them back or access their money. The British manager was not a people person or professional at all, in fact I would go as far as to say he was a liability to the company, passive aggressive type and a control freak who loved to micro manage the foreign teachers. Shifty, tattooed, fake degree type. He seemed to have made it his personal mission to make out that I had cheated them. I tried to get it back but the Bank of China in China is NOT the same as the Bank of China in other countries. There was and is no way to get that money back.

Now apart from that last incident there was often flooding in the teachers room, the toilets which were holes in the ground type usually stank to high heaven. The wages were 12k rmb a month BUT could be as late as 2 weeks with no apology or reason given. No help with paying the medical costs/ checks/ no free apartment - no help finding one if you wanted to move. No medical insurance. Police in that city were down right horrible. Xining which has a high population of muslims and some Tibetans is a slightly sensitive city, obviously nowhere like Urumqi in the Xinjiang area but extra cameras were put up on the commune I moved into and visiting the police station was not a friendly experience I can tell you. Rude, abrupt nasty lot in the foreign police station indeed.

One colleague from Pakistan had flown back as he was renewing his visa.He wasnt allowed back in, he had been teaching in Xining but his visa came from a different province. It was all a bit dodgy. Another lot were from Bangladesh who didnt have the proper visas, they were medical students. Just before I left there were teachers from Uzbekistan and Africa I didnt bother asking about their visa situations one was a medical student again. Now there is nothing wrong where you come from but if your English isnt up to scratch then it is unfair on the students.

The city Xining is awful for most of the year, 10 months of horrible cold weather and a city that leaves rather lost. One foreign teacher ate nothing but hamburgers and fries for every meal as the local food was truly terrible. Even the locals I heard often had diarrhea. It gets down to minus 18 during the winter but you dont get snow as the city is in a very arid area, semi desert really.Food is expensive rent is high as it is a tourist city during the couple of months when the weather improves.

It is just the general malaise of the whole place. When you go to the outback and a not so rich, undeveloped city PLEASE do not expect things to run normally. Police making your visa only 10 months instead of 12 so you will have to leave sooner than you thought. Careful to read the convoluted contract that the school offers. Think of the timing of lessons on Friday evening at 8pm on a Friday but then have to be back in the classroom teaching the next morning, Saturday at 8am.

The mindset of the Chinese in that area are not so open. Could coworkers also be a little, let's say hill billy, backward thinking?

Anyway from my experience I would choose a bigger city and one which is maybe a little more international and not so far away from everywhere. I'd love to hear about others experiences in other cities and if you would/ wouldn't recommend.
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John V55
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by John V55 »

Another nasty experience of private schools. It’s not necessarily the area and I wouldn’t be surprised that the police also knew it was a dodgy set up, hence the antagonism. Non-native English speakers, ‘Shifty, tattooed, fake degree type’ … If you have a degree and the legal paperwork, stay away from private language schools!

I too taught out in the sticks, but with a government school. I had no major problems and enjoyed the experience.
https://www.academia.edu/16438508/TEFL_ ... r_Mongolia
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Cricket
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by Cricket »

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This problem is not limited to Qinghai and the Western Provinces of China. It is a nationwide problem. But it is worse out west (and the southwest as well) because SAFEA does not have a regional office in Qinghai, Gansu nor Ningxia, and the one they have in Urumqi has been closed for over a year. The nus is on YOU and every other TEFL job applicant to do your own due diligence and never count any government to help you. You must ask for the SAFEA and SAIC color scan (not a photocopy which is easily doctored) of any school that offers you a job in China and then verify it! If it is real you have yourself a school that is accountable. If not, you WILL get exploited and cheated sooner or later. When in doubt, you need to investigate BEFORE you sign any contracts or send your passport scan.https://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7551

Only about 10% pf the private schools cause 90% of the scams in China. But they taint every private schools. Public schools are indeed safe and stable but their pay is roughly half of the private schools. Doing your due diligence can yield great pay, benefits, and an honorable private school, all of which are registered with SAFEA and have a SAIC business license. You will get a better deal and either free housing or a housing subsidy if you find and negotiate your own job, which is not as difficult as many recruiters want you to believe.
Before sending off your resume or passport scan, be sure to check https://reddit.com/r/teflscams and to vaccinate yourself against foreign teacher job scams.
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John V55
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by John V55 »

90% of the problems are caused by 90% of the for-profit entertainment centres that pass for ‘language schools.’ Public schools pay less than private ‘schools’, but minus the scams, arrests and deportations. Stay well away from illegal unions and offers of fantasy salaries from anonymous posters on sites such as ruqqus, wordpress and reddit. :)

A couple of links of my own.

https://chinanews.net.au/2013/03/25/chi ... nese-scam/
‘They create countless WordPress and Blogger sites, telling outrageous lies about their victims – anyone who won’t cooperate with them. Their sites includes China Scam Patrol, China Scam Busters and others …’

https://www.opnlttr.com/letter/china-fo ... scammed-me
‘I worked with the China Foreign Teacher's Union in two capacities. I was first a volunteer for over a year. I did a lot of posting for them on different websites. They would email me the link to the site and I would post what they included on their email …’
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Cricket
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by Cricket »

I have to disagree with you about a couple things John, although we both agree there are too many dodgy operators praying og all the TEFL newbies and even some of the veterans who get caught off guard.
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I looked at the groups you mentioned and I don;t see where ANY of them sell ANYTHING or ask for money for ANYTHING. They don't even sell advertisements and some of them have been operating as far back as 2008. They don't endorse anyone either. The China Scam Patrol for example has published hundreds of articles and fraud alerts over the years and not just related to teaching. I suggest you have a look at https://chinascampatrol.wordpress.com and look at the 25 scam alerts they have exposed - only 9 are related to China foreign teachers. And what is wrong with a "wordpress site" - One third of all web sites use wordpress. John. It is a free and stable/secure platform that is hacker-proof. I think if they were in the retail or wholesale business with something to sell, and profit from, they might choose a different style of website. But for publishing reports, investigations, and articles, what is wrong with the above site John?

But is you look at the site you are always promoting on this forum for over 5 years and counting, https://chinabyteaching.com/teaching-in ... e-schools/ these people actually make money off the teachers they contact. In my opinion, public schools are fine, but when it comes to getting advice, I would personally give more credibility and listen more to people who have nothing to hustle or sell to me, than someone who is trying to convince to buy a tefl course or job placement services. But that is just MY own opinion.

You also mentioned something abouy "people who don't cooperate with the China Scam Patrol". What eactaly is the "cooperation" you are taliking about John? What "cooperation" did they ask YOU for? I looked at their web site and have seen their alerts like this one, and I see no many or solicitation any of "cooperation". Please enlighten me John. This is just one of many articles I am referring to John. https://opnlttr.com/letter/china-esl-te ... am-artists Please explain the cooperation thing thing you are talking about. Here's some CSP articles and I cannot find any of them that solicit anything - not money or "cooperation". Two of them talk about paying rewards however. https://opnlttr.com/search/node/China%20Scam%20Patrol


As for your commnes about the CFTU I would dirrect your attention to three links which indicates to me at least, that they also don't sell anything and someone has been trying to smear them very hard:

https://opnlttr.com/search/node/CFTU

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaScamCentr ... ftu_china/

https://reddit.com/r/cftu
Before sending off your resume or passport scan, be sure to check https://reddit.com/r/teflscams and to vaccinate yourself against foreign teacher job scams.
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John V55
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by John V55 »

I give credit to the site I linked to because of content. The site is a self-confessed recruitment site, it’s not an anonymous page on opnlttr, ruqqus or reditt, or as far as I know not part of a link farm and it gives information. I didn’t say anything about ‘cooperation’, the link I gave did and so you’d have to ask them about it. I leave it up to others to decide.

What annoys me Cricket is the deceit. A few new members suddenly turn up and start blitzing the same spam pages purely be coincidence. It’s not a coincidence though, so why pretend it is? It’s not exactly a well-kept secret who you’re spamming for, so why the wide-eyed innocence? OK, you’ve found a forum that isn’t very clued up about what you’re doing and who you represent and you’re obviously taking advantage of that, so fair play to you with that if you can get away with it, because I can’t think of another forum that would allow it.

Yet, any chance of you directing us to something you’ve published on education instead of the same repetitive link outs to anonymous websites? No, I suppose not and seriously, I don’t blame you. Whoever you are, I suspect you’ve been scammed in the past and this is your way of revenge.

Why not come out into the open and challenge that business online? Why anonymously direct people to an illegal union, or promote illegal freelance teaching practices, or encourage the same greed of £1000 a week for a 150 TEFL certificate? Why would you want to see others make the same mistakes you made and face the same consequences?

Leaves a nasty taste in my mouth Cricket. There are enough problems at the bottom end of the privatized TEFL industry as it is without all the infighting going on between you people and your respective organizations. Don’t you feel even a little shame that you’re leading others down the same path as those greedy ones now sitting in deportation centres? I guess not, so now you can put up some more spammy links. :)
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Vagabond
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by Vagabond »

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I have always supported the China Scam Patrol guys mostly because they dig pretty deep and do not discriminate about what they investigate - even the crooked son of a corrupt CCP leader. I also admire them because they are volunteers and one of the three was a TEFL teacher for quite a few years. Here's just some of the stuff they warned me an many others about. And if you add up the views, they saved at least 150,000 expats in China from stepping right into deep shit.

https://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/search.php?mode=results (Search: China.Scam.Patrol at this link or just visit https://ChinaScamPatrol.wordpress.com

Most people don't realize that we spend a lot of money to travel and set up in a foreign country when we first arrive which takes quite a few bucks. After spending $5,000 to relocate, it only takes one scam to wipe you out financially and calling home to dad to send you plane ticket home.That is why each of us should be trying to help out the new arrivals and even warning them before they buy their plane ticket what and who to avoid. I agree with Cricket on about trusting people who are not trying to sell something to you. John is also right that public schools are generally safe but do not pay enough to save any money or pay off your student loan.

So my last advice is don't be rushed into any decisions and use those white and blacklists and personally talk with someone at China Scam Patrol if you have doubts. They will follow-up with you within a few days if you send them an email at ChinaScamPatrol[-at-]gmail. I hope you all find the dream job you are looking for and until the China borders open up again you may want to look elsewhere that pays a lot more and does not have political baggage to deal with. Maybe try https://ruqqus.com/+Expats or search right here on TEFL.net.
Before taking any teaching job in China make a quick visit over to https://reddit.com/r/ChinaScamCentral and https://reddit.com/r/TEFLreviews so your dream job does not become a nightmare.
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by John V55 »

You spent $5000 to relocate and you talk about scams? They must have seen you coming. :roll: Come on Vagabond you’re slipping. Only three spammy links in a post? You can do better than that. :)

For heaven’s sake, to anyone reading this. If you’re in China don’t send your email to an illegal union unless you want the PSB to take an unhealthy interest in you.
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by Vagabond »

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Moving myself and my dog to Beijing may not quite be the same as moving yourself to Mongolia John - especially when you do the cost calculations and choice of lifestyles we choose for ourselves John. In Beijing, when housing is not provided by the schools, foreigners are expected and in many places required to pay 3 months in advance plus one month's security deposit. You will also pay about $500 to get the water, gas, electric and internet hooked up in your name, and in some gated communities, you will also pay a security fee and "community fee" which is like a condo association maintenance fee. You can find a regular apartment with no security and no gated access but that will only save you about $100 a month in Beijing. I chose a place that was walking distance to my initial work and within 100 yards of a subway station, and that allows pets. I spent more than $500 to put my dog through the quarantine process and another $200 on mandatory Chinese vaccinations and another $30 just to register him. I also shipped 3 boxes of personal property and my clothes because I planned initially to come for a 2 year stay, and then, just never left.

Had I chose to work in Inner Mongolia, Gansu, Anhui, Jiangxi or some other dirt poor province, my housing costs would have been cut in half and my relocation costs would be reduced to about $3,500 but the air/train fares would be maybe $300 more than the $1,205 (paid at the time).

But the topic of this post is not about relocation expenses. It is about the too many scams in western in China, and I think that point is one that every expat can determine on their own. As for those still back in their homeland, I suggest you think twice about bringing your dog or cat to China since I learned that 25%-30% of the animals are dying in the quarantine facility. Also most Chinese people in the cities are afraid of big dogs and many cities have laws about the size of dog you have. No problems with cats however. My dog was near and dear to me and my loyal friend for 5 years, and I simply could not leave him behind. Lastly, any link that support a point I am trying to make or gives a REAL EXAMPLE is not spam in my opinion. Someone who puts the same identical link in 50 consecutive posts whether it be a back-link to their web site or a resume looking for a job is spam by most standards and norms of intelligent people.

I have NEVER ever attempted to sell anything on any forum including myself through a resume. The only time that I defend someone other than myself is when people known to me, or someone who has helped in the past is attacked or smeared in absencia. Having said all this I stand by my comments and even if it does not benefit "John" because he clearly stated he will only work in private schools, I hope that it may help others make it through the scam minefield of China's TEFL world intact.
Before taking any teaching job in China make a quick visit over to https://reddit.com/r/ChinaScamCentral and https://reddit.com/r/TEFLreviews so your dream job does not become a nightmare.
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John V55
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by John V55 »

No point trying to make me defensive Vagabond. :) Location is a preference and I prefer rural locations, but that’s just an individual choice. It came with safety, a doable workload alongside native professional teachers and above all, I never got to see the inside of a deportation centre. I never got scammed either.

Ah yes, Inner Mongolia, your quoted ‘dirt poor province.’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Mongolia
‘Inner Mongolia is one of the most economically developed provinces in China with annual GDP per capita close to US$13,000 (2019), often ranked 5th in the nation.’

My accommodation was provided because I worked for a school, not a private business. No deposits, paid for holidays and annual flights, food allowance, free utilities and Wi-Fi … Apart from daily necessities there wasn’t really anything to spend my salary on so I banked 90% of it as savings. I did not and never have worked in a Chinese ‘private’ school, only a real school regulated by a government education authority.

Yet you’re right, it’s all about too many scams. Where are these scams coming from? From businesses who convince people they can earn more with a 150 hour TEFL certificate in a developing country than a headmaster with decades of experience in a first-world western country. Greed Vagabond, it still lures the tens of thousands who get deported every year.
As for my signature link, over the years I swopped it on several occasions, including:

https://www.academia.edu/16438508/TEFL_ ... r_Mongolia
https://www.academia.edu/11730502/ABL_TEFL_SYLLABUS

and here is an amusing tongue in cheek one about TEFL in Thailand.
https://www.ajarn.com/blogs/john-v/excu ... ent-we-met
Now you write one of your anonymous spammy link posts for ajarn and see if they’ll post it. ;)

They’re just short articles I’ve written over the years and that’s the difference between you and I. I don’t have to hide behind an anonymous avatar cartoon character and I do not link out to anonymous pages on ruqqus, reditt and opnlttr, written by the same anonymous characters.

Stay safe Vagabond and if you really are a teacher in China and part of the CFTU, be very sure the PSB already know who you are. :)
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by oneota »

I know this is a bit off topic, but here goes.

I have re-located to a number of countries (Germany, the US, Mongolia, ROK, Kazakhstan, and short-term to Costa Rica and Mexico, and I never had to spend anywhere near what has been mentioned. Usually, a couple hundred bucks has been way more than what I have needed (not that that is all I have had with me, though). Is it that different in China, or is it a matter of different like-style choices?
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John V55
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by John V55 »

It’s the difference between public (state) education and private (business) language centres. State education usually comes with provided furnished accommodation often plus free utilities, whereas language schools can be anything from rented rooms to a purpose built block, but not generally designed as live-in premises and so you’re pretty much left to fend for yourself. Depending on location, a reasonable place can be expensive with deposits, furniture and the ongoing monthly cost of utilities. As you get to the first-tier cities, as with any country expect prices to rocket.
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by Vagabond »

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Maybe I should clarify John. I have nothing against Inner Mongolia since I often take my son camping on vacation up to the Real Mongolia (north of Inner Mongolia) and pass through Inner Mongolia. Both are beautiful in different ways. I also gave lectures in Erdos and Wuhai so I have teaching experience up there as well. But I will remind people that the Spring to summer beauty is off-set by a 4 month BRUTALLY COLD winter where temperatures can drop to minus 40 degrees and stay below zero for weeks on end.

I also have nothing against teaching at public schools since I tried that once myself as well. But I could not work for so little money paid by the public schools. My lifestyle is not a Spartan one and I am used to going to IMAX movies every week and eating at restaurants - not street vendor food. So, it really all comes down to personal choice. Everyone has the right to choose their own employment, housing standards, and environment. But if someone offered me any job in Mongolia, (no matter how much it paid) didn't warn me about about 4 months of sub-zero weather, I would be extremely pissed.
Before taking any teaching job in China make a quick visit over to https://reddit.com/r/ChinaScamCentral and https://reddit.com/r/TEFLreviews so your dream job does not become a nightmare.
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by John V55 »

You gave lectures in Erdos, to whom and when was that?

Location is a matter of choice. Yes, the Siberian blizzards coming down off the steppes were something else, but all part of the experience. Do you ever think that part of being scammed was your choice of a western lifestyle in a developing country? I didn’t eat street vendor food in China. My wife and I cooked in the apartment or occasionally ate Mongolian restaurant food. Spartan is going without and we never did that.
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Re: Unprofessional & dodgy school in West China/ Qinghai.

Unread post by John V55 »

Anyway, to continue.
I ask when and where Vagabond did his lectures in Erdos for two reasons.

First, for several years I was on a sub-committee for the Erdos Education Authority. That means that if another foreigner appeared giving lectures I would have known about it. Erdos is not Beijing and foreigners in that neck of the woods are a rarity.

Second, language centres in China are the bottom end of TEFL. Here you’ll find the fake degrees, people chasing money, those working on the wrong visas … Together with the arrests and deportations and the scammers who prey on them. With probably very few exceptions, they don’t contain post/university graduates who give lectures.

Back to spamming.

As Vagabond waits to be told what to write it’s so obvious that three or four here are working from a script. If you follow the links they follow the same repetitive format; blah, blah, (link) in a continual merry-go-round to the same anonymous sites that allow anyone to post anything. Even the images are the same low quality. There is nothing stopping anyone from going to sites like wordpress, opnlttr or ruqqus and writing an article telling everyone the Martians have invaded earth!

The CFTU ‘website’ (on a wordpress page obviously) is a replica of the link posts here, all pointing back to the same links that sent you there. If you go to Ahref and type in the CFTU url, it will show you that it’s only got 17 backlinks (from the spam pages linking into it) and an authority of 0.5! In other words, no one including google is touching CFTU with a bargepole. Check for yourself by googling 'China Foreign Teacher Union' and put the url into the following link.

https://ahrefs.com/website-authority-checker

The way to keep yourself safe is to stay away from anonymous spam sites and privatized language ‘schools.’ Teaching has never been a lucrative job for teachers, only the scammers who prey on them and that’s happening at the bottom end of TEFL in the private sector. If you go to China with the intention of having a good time and earning loads of money, the chances are you too will be scammed because that’s not what teaching is about.

Read articles, join ex-pat websites, ask questions and don’t be lured into the shady world of TEFL. China is not the west where you’re free to do your own thing. You are tied into a place of work and so suggestions of freelancing to earn lots of money is illegal. No one will find out or report you in a surveillance police state? Are you serious? The deportation centers are full of foreigners that came for a good time with the promise of earning ridiculously high salaries because some anonymous person told them they could.

The truth about salaries? In a state school expect ¥10K to 15K pm, including free add-ons of accommodation, utilities, maybe a food allowance thrown in. If private, don’t be fooled by anything over ¥25K, not including the aforementioned add-ons. If you’re offered ¥30/40/50K unless you’re a Ph.D. walk away, you’re probably going to get scammed.

I’ve nothing personal against the spammers here, they’ve probably been scammed themselves, but to suggest you follow in their footsteps with promises of illegal practices, earning salaries far above the norm or having a good time are misleading at best. Don’t do it and stay away from the China Foreign Teacher Union.
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Re: Mongolia

Unread post by oneota »

Yes, winters are cold in Mongolia, but I think it is the applicant's responsibility to find out such basic things as climate. Going to Ulaanbaatar without knowing about its winters is like going to Kuwait City or Madrid without knowing about their terribly hot summers. There are certain things that anybody looking at a job anywhere should check out, including cost of living, climate, language, criminality, and health issues. Let your fingers do the walking: all of these are easily found online.
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