China TEFL - Spam, Scams and Scammers

[John V55]

Come and dip your toes in the shark infested waters of spam and scam privatized China TEFL. Get the facts not the fantasies of China TEFL.

I’ve now reached official UK retirement age, which means I’m official retired but not physically. Phew! It’s been an adventure. I never got to be the elusive TEFL millionaire, but then again I didn’t get arrested or deported either and generally enjoyed my TEFL years. Which is different from the recent TEFL.net spammers who have arrived with the sole purpose of leading you into the murky privatized TEFL world they inhabit. I won’t name them; you’ll recognize them from the amount of links to the same anonymous web pages in their posts and although they’re spreading out across the forum, ‘General Teacher Discussion’ remains a favourite haunt.



Spam & Spammers

So, who are these spammers? With the odd exception they will be members or supporters of the illegal China Foreign Teachers Union. Illegal because all unions in China are state controlled, which means they’re being allowed to operate by the government and be very sure it’s not being done as a kindness. In which case, if you do get involved with these links and the ‘Union’ behind them, be very sure that the Public Security Bureau (PSB) will also have details of your being involved in illegal activities. Probably the reason why the spammers wish to remain anonymous in keeping with the anonymous links they provide. You might also wonder if it’s a coincidence that the CFTU page links out to the same anonymous spammy pages linking into it, which by an amazing coincidence contain replicas of the spam links coming out of TEFL.net by our own spammers. Surely not he said in disbelief …

The purpose of these links is to drive the unwary into the world of scams, whilst pretending to warn against them. Black and White lists on anonymous web pages, opinions on salary amounts disguised as research, endless attacks on individual recruiters … All done by volunteers spamming for the China Foreign Teachers Union, which is where it all leads back to. It’s not exactly a well-kept secret. Spam? Surely not ...

https://ruqqus.com/+TEFLReviews/post/78 ... r-job-scam

Who is the China Foreign Teachers Union (CFTU)? An excerpt from their anonymous web page on Wordpress:
"The China Foreign Teachers Union is a volunteer group of foreign teachers who themselves were victims of employer abuse/exploitation, or recruiter scams and skimming schemes." In other words, the former greedy leading you down the same path and why the spammers get so upset when CFTU is mentioned. Let’s pause for a moment to introduce some links which may or may not be spam themselves, but certainly contain alternative and interesting reading.



https://chinanews.net.au/2013/03/25/chi ... nese-scam/
"They create countless WordPress and Blogger sites, telling outrageous lies about their victims – anyone who won’t cooperate with them. Their sites includes China Scam Patrol, China Scam Busters and others …"

https://www.opnlttr.com/letter/china-fo ... scammed-me
"I worked with the China Foreign Teacher's Union in two capacities. I was first a volunteer for over a year. I did a lot of posting for them on different websites. They would email me the link to the site and I would post what they included on their email …"

China specifically due to demand is riddled with scams and the vast majority are at the bottom end of privatized TEFL in the ‘language centres.’ They target the unwary by promising unobtainable salaries and almost without exception, those sitting in the deportation centres will be the victims of the scams they knowingly or unknowingly bought into. What brought them there? The age old lure of greed and gullibility producing the same casting about for someone else to blame.

Recruiters

The job of a recruiter is to act as a middleman between you and the employer. They’re the ones that do the legwork, run around the various government departments (probably greasing a few palms on the way) and get all the paperwork in order. Their initial job is to get you to sign a contract and there’s intense competition among them. For this they make a commission, which has already been deducted from your final salary amount, so you personally get what you’ve agreed to and what they make shouldn’t concern you. The spammers are intent on convincing you that if you bypass this recruitment process, you can keep the commission and therefore earn a higher salary by doing it yourself. Which sounds OK in theory, but unless you have the contacts in the various government departments, know the process and can speak Chinese, it isn’t going to happen. So why do the bottom end TEFL recruiters scam?

The Scams

Very few recruiters are set up to scam. What they’re after are teachers to earn commission from and want to keep them for as long as possible. It’s how they make a living and if you agree to the contract they’re more often than not happy to take you on. However, supply, demand and experience dictate they can spot the stupid and the more unscrupulous will scam those they know won’t last because of the character defect of greed and who believe they’re worth more than a qualified teacher in a First-World country. Not nice, but they already know certain characters won’t last long before doing a moonlight run!

Recently, one spammer made the claim that he was earning ¥80K+ as a university lecturer. That’s nearly $147K a year, or £107K! Those who know China will also know university positions are notoriously poorly paid in Asia, as opposed to the west. Higher status, security and lower hours, but less salary. Perhaps he didn’t know this or assumed others wouldn’t know either?

China TEFL

TEFL and teaching in general is not and has never been a lucrative profession, which doesn’t stop the few believing that somewhere out there in the vastness of China are private businesses willing to pay the salaries of a professionally qualified teacher in the west for a TEFL certificate in a developing country. Do you really believe that you’re worth upwards of £66.5K ($91.6K) per annum for a TEFL certificate? This in a country where the cost of living and purchasing power is half that of the west. If you do believe your TEFL certificate provides you with the earning power of a brain surgeon there are no shortage of scammers wanting to speak to you!

One of the cultural shocks in China is that it’s not democratic and has never claimed to be. There is no equality, the isms are rife and it’s not a western country where you turn up and go it alone. Give or take, you will get the going rate whether that’s done by deducting ‘extras’ from your salary, to downright scamming it. China is not the place to boast you’re getting 20% more than your colleagues because you’re ‘smart’ or ‘clever’. That you believe you will be earning x7 salary of a qualified Chinese teacher with decades of experience isn’t going to happen and is why the deportation centres contain TEFL teachers and not recruiters.

I dislike spammers and if I can help one individual to stay away from the anonymous spammy links coming out of TEFL.net I’ll be happy. My writing is an alternative to the 90% BS contained in the spam links and google does pick up on these sort of threads, even when it’s comedy. Enjoy.

viewtopic.php?t=8943

China can be a memorable lifetime experience, or your worst nightmare. Stay away from politics and don’t get involved in illegal unions or spam links. These anonymous people and their anonymous links will be of no use to you sitting in a prison cell on the other side of the world. Stick to government schools that have a reputation to uphold and stay away from the bottom end of privatized TEFL and the promises of anonymous posters. You will never know who these people are, just like the anonymous pages they link to. Stay safe and if you have the qualifications have a memorable and safe experience as a teacher and not like many of the spammers here looking for riches who ended up in prison themselves. Real quotes, or should it read, ‘A moron’s guide to China TEFL’ brought to you by the same spammers that urge you to follow their links.

"David came to China unaware that he was working illegally on an F visa, and that he was unqualified to work at his originally assigned school because he lacked a college degree."

"ESLinsider baited and switched me on a job placement in 2017. The owner Ian said I could get a full-time job that paid $3,800 a month with a free furnished apartment with air-fare reimbursement if I completed his TEFL course ($599 at the time) and a fake diploma from him for another $500 which I negotiated down to $300 … it sounded like a great deal."

"… and was taken directly to a jail way out in the boonies where I met about 60 other foreigners with similar problems. …"

[John V55]

The forum spammers are not here to help, they’re here to link out to similar anonymous low-quality web pages which is rather obvious and why it’s called spam.
Virtually all the spammers here will be volunteers of the Chinese Foreign Teachers Union and why their links all point to the same web pages. Most will have previously been scammed themselves, but not having learned their lesson are endorsing and leading you into the same trap of greed they fell into.

In their defence the spammers say they’re trying to expose scams, but the vast majority of those scams occur a) in the privatized sector and b) because of greed, which is what the spammers are intentionally leading you into. The lure is always greed. One thing seldom mentioned and obviously with exceptions, is that greed is a predominantly US character trait. Perhaps it’s a cultural phenomenon but in a communist society that will not go unnoticed. All the effort you put into the interview to show your professionalism will be outweighed by your behaviour of just another young party animal passing through.

Anyway, back to the post. In all employment everywhere there is a going average rate and you won’t beat it by much. You will not sit in a staff room and boast that you’re getting 25% more than everyone else because you’re clever. The ones sitting in the deportation all thought they were clever too.
The employer will set the rate they’re prepared to pay and the recruiter will factor into that their profit margin and if it’s not enough, you politely refuse and move on. You can of course apply directly to the various private schools, but if you’re offered ¥60K+ pm, that is when you should realize it’s a scam because schools offering that amount will be the top International schools and you won’t be getting near those unless you’re a qualified teacher in your home country.

This is not the first time the forum has experienced these spammers. A few years ago the exact same problem occurred, but when the links were only made clickable to registered members they disappeared en-masse. Since the clicks have become live again they’re back, all registering at the same time, all again endorsing the CFTU or its affiliates and one after another like a tag team. Why would independent members be so upset at criticism of the CFTU and/or attack the poster? Because it’s what they’ve been told to do.

Stay away from the private sector and if you're going to be a teacher at least teach in a real school and not at the bottom end of the scam market.

The bottom line is this. If you have a verifiable degree, a TEFL certificate from any company, some experience and work for a government school you’re virtually immune to scams. If however you choose the ‘performing monkey’ private sector and are intent on grabbing as much as you can to fund your party animal lifestyle, you stand a good chance of being scammed no matter what warnings are given. In other words, the greed the spammers are leading you into opens you up to the very scams the spammers on behalf of the CFTU pretend they’re warning you against.

[CFTU]

Dear JohnV55,

I will not let our volunteers be baited into an endless debate with you, as you seem so intent on smearing us. We both know your motive, and we'll get to that in a bit. but for now I will just state the FACTS and ignore you claims and opinions. I am doing my best to be polite and civil. Keep in mind many of our members are long-time visitors to TEFL.net which has always appeared to be one of the more reputable TEFL forums, especially since Joe makes earnest efforts to vet the job ads. In over 10 years, the CFTU has only posted two comments on this forum, this being the second. Both comments were in response to YOUR allegations, and frankly, over the past 10 years the only people who have tried to taint us are TEFL recruiters, visa agents, or black market schools who we outed in this annual publication as being either "a skimmer, scammer, or identity thief. I now must suspect you are one of the people listed in this publication under another name, real or assumed. https://www.docdroid.net/ZU9pFSI/cftu2020blacklist-pdf

I say this because you reside on this forum 24/7 (easily deduced by your post history and frequency), and you are constantly spamming your resume with every post. I believe this resume is only a prop to help you win the confidence of the newbies you solicit with PMs. Let's face it sir, If you are so qualified you would have been hired years ago. You recently posted some tourist photos that really prove nothing. You, like the many people described in this article are probably like all those moderators and sock puppet accounts at ESLCafe who lurk on the forum waiting to recruit any TEFL newbie who wanders onto the forum with any innocent question. We have no clue if you spend all your time fishing with PMs on just TEFL.net, or a handful of TEFL Forums. https://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic ... fl-forums/

Over the last month, the CFTU has only posted 6 announcements on the entire internet which is hardly "spam" by any standard. I can understand your anger and frustration if teachers don't want to work for your public school friends in Mongolia after educating themselves about better compensation and benefits elsewhere that THEY FIND ON THEIR OWN WITHOUT AGENTS, FEES OR MIDDLEMEN after they visit us at https://reddit.com/r/cftu. But people have freedom of choice JohnV55, and unlike you and other recruiters WE WANT THEM TO KNOW THEIR 22 EMPLOYEE RIGHTS AND WHAT A FAIR EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT LOOKS LIKE: https://chinaforeignteachersunion.wordp ... contracts/

Let's sort the fact from fiction since we do not advertise and do very little promotion for ourselves. These are FACTS:


* The CFTU was founded in 2008 by some foreign teachers who themselves were cheated.

* The CFTU became truly active in 2010 and began recruiting other teachers who had similar experiences

* We have ALWAYS been a volunteer organization - Nobody earns an income through the CFTU

* The CFTU does not sell any product, service, job placements, or even advertising - $0 income

* Membership is always FREE with the only requirement is to attend 3 meetings a year and subscribe to our newsletter

* Yes, even our monthly newsletter is free.

* We helped over 4,000 teachers get either release letters or back pay since 2008

* We were instrumental in getting 3 "Super Scammers" arrested by the China PSB for defrauding expats

* We do not give legal advice but we publish/distribute China's labor laws for free to expats in English

* We NEVER claimed to be a legal labor union and explained this to you and others publicly.

* We promote and urge all expats to fully comply with China's visa and other laws

* We have a working relationship and understanding with the Chinese government through 2 channels

- Until COVID hit we gave free orientations and seminars to new arrivals every 3 months

* We have issued 16 warnings of various upcoming law enforcement actions to the expat community in English

* We publish all the visa requirement changes in English when they occur even weeks ahead of the embassies

* In 2018, we discontinued our .org website after constant hacking from vengeful Chinese scammers made maintenance expensive and our lives miserable

For further information about us read our posts from the past 12 years, and those of others...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaScamCent ... ftu_china/

https://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/search.php?mode=results

https://eslwatch.info/en/component/find ... Itemid=771

https://opnlttr.com/search/node/CFTU

Yes, we just got banned from ruqqus because some yahoo kept posting nonsense in our name to get us banned and we are working things out with Ruqqus to restore our account. In this regard, be advised that NOBODY is authorized to post anything on our behalf. This is our one and only account here on this forum. If you do not read it from our account, please do not attribute it to the CFTU. If we have something important to say, we will make an announcement, as we are doing now.

JohnV55 is not the first person to spew innuendo and false allegations against the CFTU and surely will not be the last. No amount of smear jobs will deter our us from our mission to educate and warn new foreign teacher arrivals to China and the Expat community in general. We will never endorse any business, school, or commercial enterprise, and we will expose every fraud/scam we discover that targets expats. Nothing more - Nothing less. We highly recommend that all foreign teachers already in or inbound to China review our annual White List and remember something super important:

If anyone tries to recruit you for any job in China and they refuse to let you copy their national ID card or passport, or they cannot provide you a color scan (not a photocopy) of their SAIC business license or SAFEA registration, they are an illegal scam to be avoided and reported to SAFEA and China Scam Patrol who will relay the info to the local police for investigation.

This will be our only post addressing JohnV55, so you are all welcome to believe what you like. We have nothing to prove to JohnV55 nor anyone else. Our only allegiance is to our members and the 30,000+ foreign teachers in China. We appreciate your continued support and your help in reporting those who have cheated you in the past, and in the future. We wish you all continued good health and fun in your teaching travels. - Gregg


BTW... anyone wanting some samples of past newsletters, please just send us an email at ChinaForeignTeachersUnion -at- gmail (Due to COVID and the border lock-out half our volunteer staff is locked out of China so allow up to a week for a reply)

[Cricket]

Yeah, I also concluded this John dude was recruiting for someone because he is here every day talking about how great it is to work for public schools in China - especially in Mongolia! There's 10 million people living in that Province so the schools must be desperate to find foreign teachers willing to work at 30 below zero (on a warm day) They probably pay John good money to find some gullible dumb teachers to freeze their ass off for 12,000rmb a month. Too each his own I guess.

[Vagabond]

An Axe To Grind?



One thing is for sure, old John really hates the CFTU people, so there has to be some history there - maybe going back a few years? That's his beef to settle not ours. For what's it's worth, the only people that could possibly be against the CFTU would be those who lose money or business because of them - the crooks that they expose. Anyone who takes the time to read one or two of their monthly newsletters would know the score pretty quick I think:

https://www.docdroid.net/9eTuyGK/cftunewsletter125-pdf

https://www.docdroid.net/62qeqhq/cftunewsletter120-pdf

https://www.docdroid.net/o5MrLc6/cftunewsletter128-pdf

As I already said the last time old John ranted about the CFTU, they do far more good for expats than any harm I can see. Years ago both my ex and I benefited from their advice and I get far more truthful information from their newsletters than I ever got from the recruiter I once used, and I don't know anyone that ever got screwed over by them. So, live and let live I say. And by the same token, old John is his own man and he has to look himself in the mirror every day, so let him be who he thinks he is. Let God do all the judging.

[John V55]

CFTU

Well, that was long post, but at least it also gave you the opportunity to get your share of spammy links in. What a surprise that they’re to the same webpages that the spammers here are linking too. Surely a coincidence? 
I have a question. How on earth do you get banned from an anonymous web page like Ruqqus? For heaven’s sake, I could post that I’m a verified space cadet called Donald Trump on there and wouldn’t be banned! But onwards …

I’m always polite and civil and I’ve no doubt that you’ve tried to find which company or business I am. As I’m not you’re reduced to personal comments (as are your volunteer spammers) which is always a sign of weakness in any debate. My resume is visible for all to see unlike you and your volunteer spammers and I never got scammed, arrested or deported either.

I also post elsewhere, but I’d hardly say 381 posts in 6 years is overdoing it and fifty of those must be recent ones.

Here are my facts. You’re an illegal union in China and the amount of spam links going to and from the CFTU from the various anonymous web pages is phenomenal. Never mind Ruqqus, even Google has penalized your Wordpress page as spam. Don’t believe me? Put your Wordpress url in here and get a surprise! You’re practically SEO invisible and I wonder why that might be. https://ahrefs.com/website-authority-checker

Those aren’t smears or false allegations, I can’t think of one forum that would allow you to do what you’re doing here and it’s why you’re reduced to posting on anonymous web pages. You and your spammers will eventually destroy this forum for your own ends.

Why do I do it? I dislike spammers and anonymous webpages that seek to lure people into your world of deceit. Is ‘deceit’ too strong a word? If you were warning people about scams you’d advise them to stay away from the bottom business end of TEFL, not lure them in with promises of high salaries or promoting an illegal union. Have you ever bothered to read the nonsense contained in the spam links that you’re linking out to and from? Talk about amateurish! Is it any wonder you have such a bad reputation on the Internet?

I’m all for your suggestion that people make their own minds up and believe what they like and so we both get to have our say, but you don’t seem too happy with my comments. Don’t be scared, I’m just a lone voice in the wilderness, but google has noticed my threads which were designed to do just that and if you google China Foreign Teachers Union you’ll notice them and they take half an hour to write without the aid of volunteers or all the work of setting up a link farm.

And so here’s my six of the best advice:

1. Don’t get involved with illegal unions or politics in China and don’t think the PSB won’t find out.

2. ‘The China Foreign Teachers Union is a volunteer group of foreign teachers who themselves were victims of employer abuse/exploitation, or recruiter scams and skimming schemes.’ The greedy who didn’t learn their lesson and are luring you into the same trap. Stay away!

3. The ¥60K pm offers in the private business sector are a sure sign of a scam.

4. Don’t look for information from links to anonymous spam sites.

5. Near 100% scam proof - Choose a government school rather than the private sector.

6. Although CFTU does occasionally give out good advice, it’s a well know spam site and treat anything it says with extreme caution. The amount of effort it requires to set up a link farm of these proportions means someone is making money out of it, or will eventually do so.

Don’t for a moment believe that everyone is overawed by your outdated spammy web page Gregg, or whoever you are. So far I’ve confined my comments to this forum, but if you want to make it personal and attack the poster I’ll do some research and come out across the Internet fighting and put the same effort as you put into it! And with that we’ve both had our say and can now shake hands and agree to disagree. You have your say and I have mine. :)

[Atlas]

Sir, with all due respect, I tried sticking up for you in the past but now i see only one of two things can be true...

(1) You are one of those old guys like my father who insists he is right about everything and refuses to address the facts - he must always be right and always have the last word, believing whoever speaks last wins the argument, or

(2) You are the mole recruiter everyone is saying you are and have some score to settle with the CFTU

To be fair we all only know you from this forum and you are just as anonymous as all the people you accuse. You can use whatever photo and name you want here and the resume you post really does not prove who you really are. And even if you really are John V55 that does not prove who you are professionally and what makes you an expert on anything other than Mongolia (of which you seem to be genuinely familiar).

Conversely, the people you attack, the CFTU and China Scam Patrol we have seen all over the internet since 2008 - providing free and accurate information, that you personally disagree with, but information you have never proven to be wrong, and other third parties have prove to be correct - just like when you insisted the average salary for Expats in China in 2021 was not 31,000 rmb. Sir, 16 different sources including Forbes, China Daily, BBC, Mercer, ETA, Immigration World, CTA, CFTU, The Telegraph Newspaper, and people even gave you all the links including this one http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-su ... &jobtype=1 and even this infographic below, but you continued to insist you are right and all 16 of these sources were wrong! Come on John. Stop being so hard-headed, and if you really are looking for a job, someone will hire you. Nobody wants to be around a "Mr. Know It All" or someone who sees a CFTU agent behind every tree.



You are wrong about many things John as are we all. So please stop trying to impose your personal opinion as fact upon the rest of us. I swear you are very much like my father and every bit as stubborn. Open your mind and stay healthy John.

[John V55]

Atlas, you know who I am and I have photos on this forum and a resume you can look at. That’s because I’m not a business or spamming for anyone whereas you and the rest of the spammers here will always remain anonymous because you do have something to hide. You want to play at who are you and proof? Email me on the address on the resume which has been there for years and I’ll reply. And you? Yes, the usual anonymous silence.

Am I right? a) Scams occur at the bottom end of the private TEFL sector and b) the lure is greed which you spammers are endorsing.

I don’t know who you are or particularly want to, but I do know why you’re here. I do disagree with the CFTU and their associated spam pages and that they provide accurate information. Websites that provide accurate information are not taken down or penalised by Google.

I don’t impose my opinion(s) on anyone. People are free to read and take in what they like. Again and importantly, read the last paragraph of my post above. Now go back to CFTU and tell them what I’ve just told you.

[Blue Moon]

I have a question... Did any of you guys get cheated or used by the CFTU? Like why would anyone attack a group of volunteers trying to help people unless there was some incident that caused friction or a problem? IMO this group apparently did a lot of good for some people and no harm that I can see. Just by looking at all their posts that are in the links in the above CFTU reply, there are over 3 million views cumulative on the information they posted about China Labor Laws, Employee Rights, Contracts, How to file Complaints, How to Break a Contract Legally, Which Schools are SAFEA Registered, etc. This is all cool and useful stuff I would want to know as a China Foreign Teacher. I don't see anything wrong with what they have been doing. Sorry, I can't agree with you John.

[John V55]

Well, let’s simplify it for you then

By ‘scammers’, I mean those that cheat teachers out of a salary and not those that provide fake qualifications or don’t provide the correct visa, because that’s the teachers fault for accepting it.

First, there can never be a blacklist. There are hundreds or thousands of active scammers. You can’t list them all because as one is exposed and gets too much adverse publicity they’ll change their name and start up again. All you can do is point a finger and say there’s one, there’s another, and there’s yet another and it will go on indefinitely, as it’s doing now.

Second, those that pop up and tell everyone they’re clever and are earning 60K or 80Kpm are the small minority of those who got scammed in the first place. The lure of unobtainable salaries is the scam itself. It’s hoped that if the scammers are exposed what will be left are the ones offering those amounts, but as they’re not scammers they won’t be.

Third. The current idea seems to be to bypass the recruiter and adopt a DIY approach, cutting out the middle man and taking the commission yourself. Those who have worked in China will know that unless you can speak Chinese, know which palms to grease and have contacts in the various government departments, that isn’t going to happen. That’s because it’s using a totally unsuitable western approach which assumes if you do this or that something happens. In China it doesn’t.

So the problem isn’t necessarily with recruiters, it’s the individual greed behind it all that enables the scammers to exist. It’s why they haunt the bottom end world of TEFL which evades education authority rules by registering as a business. You become an employee not a teacher, in which anything goes.

The approach then is to stay clear of the sector in which scams occur, which is common sense to the vast majority but not to the tiny minority leading others down that path of greed. If a minority are hoping to go to China and think TEFL is about having a fantastic salary and spending their weekends partying, they’re the ones who open themselves up to scams. If that’s what you think teaching is, you’re probably in for an unpleasant surprise. Individuals, spam pages or illegal unions leading people down that path are doing no one any good.

This is the route I went down and my experiences.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=9014

[Vagabond]

Listen John, you cannot talk about things you never experienced. Your China teaching experience has been limited to teaching in a public school in remote Mongolia where you would never see the kind of pay thousands of teachers are earning in Shanghai, Beijing, and Shenzhen. We are at opposite ends of the salary spectrum just by location alone, YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO SPEAK ABOUT PAY IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHERE YOU HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. You never earned a large salary, In Beijing, I NEVER earned less than 18,000 rmb a month with an apartment shared with another teacher. I also worked six months at Beijing No. 19 high school to fill in for a bud who had to go home when both his parents were killed in a plane crash. So I had a brief taste of public schools as well. (very orderly, stable, and secure - but low pay) Furthermore, you said you were never cheated in China (in Mongolia). Good for you - Knock on wood! So you have no right to stop others from wanting the same scam-free life. Don't be so selfish my friend.

But you also keep focusing on average salaries when you were already proven wrong by 16 sources,(including 4 Newspapers) in this thread: https://tefl.net/forums/viewtopic.php? ... e76f712074 But the topic here and now is your obsession with 1.2 MILLION EXPAT TEACHERS around the globe who are decent enough to warn other colleagues about agents and schools that have cheated or exploited them, or led them down a path believing they could work with the wrong visa and getting their butt arrested, jailed, and deported. To be fair, all the fake teachers with dummy diplomas and X, F, L, visas know they are taking this huge risk and can expect to be exploited by the bottom feeder black market schools. But for the other half of China's foreign teachers (about 30,000 Pre-Covid) They have every right to be warned of every possible scam/fraud. If you don't want to be warned, then don't read the links - that is a CHOICE everyone has.

I found this is interesting example. Look at this other forum where the CFTU posted 62 Scam Alerts and TEFL.net where they did not post any. https://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/search.p ... =egosearch (link taken from CFTU Newsletter #129) YOU WILL FIND FAR LESS COMPLAINTS OF USERS WHO WERE CHEATED. Why? Because the the 3,000,000 views on that forum by users gave them all advance warning of the major scammers, skimmers, schemers, and identity thieves. They knew who they could not trust. The same could be said for the 520,000 users of ESLwatch.info where the CFTU published 80 articles and 120 Fraud alerts over 10 years https://eslwatch.info/en/component/find ... Itemid=771 (Link taken from CFTU newsletter 129). Unlike yourself, users from these two forums, including myself are grateful[ for the warning, and ditto for all the reports the China Scam Patrol published at https://ChinaScamPatrol.wordpress.com

Yes, there can be be white and blacklists if some people are willing to collect them FROM VICTIMS, and the CFTU has been doing that since 2010 from what I can see online. I think the first time they published their lists for non-members was in 2012. According to my ex who was a CFTU volunteer for 3 years, the blacklists and white lists were an internal thing for the first two years and only had about 50 people to avoid on them mostly in Beijing and Shanghai. https://www.docdroid.net/ZU9pFSI/cftu2020blacklist-pdf Today they exposed about 1,200 entities all over China except for Tibet. I also noted that they always invite rebuttals from those blacklisted. Me, personally, I never used the blacklist because I preferred the White List since all the schools on the White List are registered with both the SAIC amd Safea. Here's a typical CFTU White List and TEFL.net is in it since at least 2018. https://www.scribd.com/document/3718193 ... n-Teachers

Finally, here is another typical example of how just one teacher with the China Teachers Alliance (CTA) made a BIG difference and warned 78,000 teachers with a single post on Reddit about the "Dragon Lady" who uses five different personal aliases and now 20 different ghost companies to cheat over a thousand expats every year https://www.reddit.com/r/teaching/comme ... h=d4486b65

In summary, I have to say that John's claims do not hold water considering the huge benefits that all the below groups provided to expats over the last decade to one degree or another. And to them I publicly say "Thank You!" If I had some extra time in my schedule, I would volunteer some of my time to help the CFTU, but I now tutor 50 hours a week and already volunteer with WWF.


CTA
CFTU
China Scam Busters (inactive or defunct?)
ETA
ESLWatch.info
China Scam Patrol
ChinaScamWatch.org

[John V55]

It’s not necessary to have directly experienced something to know about it. I never got scammed and that’s because basic intelligence and common sense warned me of what was going to happen if I followed the advice of spammers and scammers. I also didn’t need to work in a succession of schools because my contract wasn’t renewed, get arrested, or do midnight runs. To have to jump from school to school every year isn’t a sign of experience, but failure. You think I never went to places like Beijing or Shenzhen or talked to others and stayed in one spot with my eyes closed?

I don’t focus on opinion based average salaries and I’m not the one putting up images of them. You’re quite right that the average salary in first-tier cities such as Beijing or Shanghai might be 30K, but then you’d need that to live there and after your monthly expenses that 30K will be a distant memory.

Those who believe spam links offer good information will click on them and as they’re sent from link to link will quickly realise why the low quality content is both anonymous and regarded across the Internet as spam.

You’re wasting your time spamming for the CFTU, the only ones here cheering it on are the rest of the spammers and at the rate this is going, the site owner will one day have to come and clean up the mess as he realizes that the site that he’s built up over the years has turned into a spammy link farm. That's already becoming apparent now.

Your list at the bottom of the above post is simply a collection of anonymous sites as are the usual spam links in your post.

[Vagabond]

I am speaking only for myself. Get that through your thick head John. The CFTU has already made their statement and now according to you, anyone who agrees with them or their mission, or tactics, you get your knickers in a not and accuse them of spamming. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH YOU - GOT IT? Your rant is getting stale and lame John. By your own logic we should be alleging that you are spamming for all the recruiters and black market schools who hate the CFTU! Stop beating a dead horse John. You have no divine authority to be preaching to people about things YOU NEVER EXPERIENCED EVEN ONCE IN YOUR LIFE.

And, no a virgin cannot lecture someone about sex, especially to a mother with three kids. Your logic is convoluted and most people with more than air between their ears will see that you are in denial about 1) 2021 Salaries of QUALIFIED China foreign teachers, 2) The value of being warned in advance of scams, and 3) The right of every Expat to make their own intelligent choice and disagree with John. I can now understand why nobody has hired you in over three years you have been spamming your resume 300+ times on this forum. I can also now understand how you have chased away the two dozen regular usess/posters who were here only two years ago. Great job John.

[John V55]

Don’t get so upset Vagabond, you’re only a spammer and not as though you’re getting paid for it. I’m all for disagreement, but it seems every time I do the spammers get upset. I’m not the one linking out to anonymous sites; neither recruiters nor anyone else’s. As an independent individual, why would you get so upset at any criticism of the CFTU?

The reason I no longer get hired is because I’m retirement age and if you worked in China you’d know that the chances of getting the blue book over 60 is near zero. Spamming by the way is not a resume as a signature line; spamming is linking out to other sites over and over again.
It’s not the first time this forum has attracted spammers and happened with you same lot a few years ago. Eventually, the live links were made unclickable except to members who’d logged in and you all disappeared. When the links were recently made clickable again you lot came back with a vengeance.

Even after a few months the forum is awash with spam links from you people and it’s because the site owner has allowed it. It’s not me that will wreck the forum and reduce participation, but those who see what the forum has become. You could talk about your pet dog on here and one of you spammers will find a reason to put in single issue links from anonymous scammy web pages.

I’m getting to the point now where I’ve had enough and am willing to leave you spammers to it as the site owner doesn’t seem interested either. If it’s going to be a spam forum, so be it.

[Cricket]

Yes sirrreee Bob...this anonymous man using the name JohnV55 is without any doubt another blog bully recruiter who has the balls to label others who may have caused a decrease n his income flow. So for those oh you who get PMs from this guy, any recommendation he makes to you regarding a school or a recruiter is designed to put a few shekels in his pocket, nothing more. There is always at least one of these job agents fishing on every forum. They are always the guys with the longest history on the forum with the highest post count. https://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic ... fl-forums/

So ironic that he always tells us that everyone here is anonymous and accuses others of being someone their not or spammers, yet he himself has been spamming his resume on this forum for years!!!! This dude is the epitome of hypocrisy. Seriously, if his resume was real it would be impossible that he goes without a job for over a year! For all we know, "John" could really be "Tony Baloney" the greedy TEFL recruiter seen in the photo above, and I could be a fish peddler from Boston yes? The truth is when scammers get caught they begin accusing others to take the focus off themselves.

So you all just need beware of anyone who sends you Personal Messages with referrals, recommendations, and/or endorsements from any and all TEFL forums. Some of these guys will fish on 3 - 5 forums at one time. Just for fun, See "Confessions of a TEFL Recruiter" at https://ChinaScamPatrol.wordpress.com

[Tiger]

Hey guys, give it a rest already. Everyone has a right to disagree and you both made some good points. In the end, everyone will believe what they want anyway.