The truth behind scam links

[John V55]

Oh come on Atlas, all it needs is for Vagabond to turn up and I’ll be calling you lot the Three Musketeers, or the Scam Sites Tag Team. ;) You three turn up at the same time pretending you’re independent, endlessly linking out to the same link farm scam sites and it’s a coincidence? We both know who you represent and why they use you to link out from genuine sites because their own page has already been classed as scam by Google.

There’s a difference between respecting you as a person and agreeing with what you’re doing. If you want me to respect what you’re doing then stop hiding behind anonymity and write an in-depth article on TEFL scams explaining who you are and why you’re doing it, instead of using this forum as a link farm.

What’s happening now may be increasing post amounts in the short term, but that will be offset when eventually Google realizes the forum is being allowed to be used as part of a scam link network and starts to penalize it. In other words (are you listening Joe), you’re now part of this link farm because buried within these low authority scam sites will be two way links back to this site. It’s why most TEFL forums don’t allow links, or are heavily moderated to stop what’s happening here.

[odyssey]

you’re now part of this link farm because buried within these low authority scam sites will be two way links back to this site. It’s why most TEFL forums don’t allow links, or are heavily moderated to stop what’s happening here.

It might be why every link in these forums seems to be rel=nofollow.

[John V55]

you’re now part of this link farm because buried within these low authority scam sites will be two way links back to this site. It’s why most TEFL forums don’t allow links, or are heavily moderated to stop what’s happening here.

It might be why every link in these forums seems to be rel=nofollow.

Yes, just checked the html and you’re right. Bad news for the link spammers.

[Vagabond]

I think the emphasis here should be about ALL the ways to prevent scams and not about whether one or two people don't like links. If there are 5 ways how to stop scams we should be providing 5 ways to the new TEFL teachers here, not just suggesting where to work, and not just using links but all 5 ways. Maybe some people don't want to read a 10 paragraph story about where others worked and why they public or private schools better. Some people may not like jumping around with links. But every possible way to safely find a teaching job in China, including finding their own should be offered.

The only way I would be against links is if the links kept going to one broker or school suggesting or claiming this is the only safe job agent or the only safe school to use. The more choice a newbie has the better imo. You guys need to stop bickering about who has the "better way" to warn people and aside from pushing public schools as the ONLY solution or using scam warning links as the BEST solution, let the visitor decide what route THEY want to take. Besides, all of you overlooked other avenues to use for due diligence. Here are my ideas and suggestion for newbies.

(1.) IF YOU USE A RECRUITER OR JOB AGENT:

a. Ask them these 7 questions to make sure that agent/recruiter is honest and working for you and not the school's interest
https://ruqqus.com/+TEFLReviews/post/78 ... r-job-scam

b. Whatever school or training center they recommend ask for a copy of the school's SAFEA registration and SAIC business license.

c. Ask for a copy of the employment contract that you sign with the school in English and scrutinize it and look for this stuff that is well-hidden. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeflReviews/co ... mployment/

d. If you can't get all of the above from an agent, get another agent or explore the DIY avenue


(2.) IF YOU GO THE DIRECT DIY ROUTE:

a. Decide where you want to work and how much you need to earn
http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-su ... &jobtype=1

b. If income is not your main concern, pick a public school or university in the destination city or town you prefer
(Get a free list from SAFEA, CTA, or CFTU)

c. If income is a main concern find and use the white and blacklists of the CTA, CFTU, and China Scam Watch, or if you are already in China, go to a SAFEA office and ask them for a list of registered schools and training centers in your destination city, (All Safea registered schools should have a SAIC business license and be a safe and trustworthy place to work. Look at https://ruqqus.com/+ChinaTEFL or https://reddit.com/r/tefl_tips_traps_scams for these lists.

As a TEFL teacher working in China almost 10 years these are my suggestions. I also think newbies should only take advice from people that have nothing to sell them, no tefl courses, language lessons, visa service, job placements, memberships, books, CDs etc. Also be aware of the many forum moderators or "friendly and helpful forum users who always make recommendations and referrals to agents or schools for referral fees that they will never disclose" (Excerpt from the CTA teacher's Welcome To China booklet". Good luck to all of you.

[John V55]

Hello Vagabond, No sooner mentioned and you turn up with more of the same links as your friends. Good heavens, you couldn’t make this up. :lol:

[Atlas]

I think the emphasis here should be about ALL the ways to prevent scams and not about whether one or two people don't like links. If there are 5 ways how to stop scams we should be providing 5 ways to the new TEFL teachers here, not just suggesting where to work, and not just using links but all 5 ways. Maybe some people don't want to read a 10 paragraph story about where others worked and why they public or private schools better. Some people may not like jumping around with links. But every possible way to safely find a teaching job in China, including finding their own should be offered.

The only way I would be against links is if the links kept going to one broker or school suggesting or claiming this is the only safe job agent or the only safe school to use. The more choice a newbie has the better imo. You guys need to stop bickering about who has the "better way" to warn people and aside from pushing public schools as the ONLY solution or using scam warning links as the BEST solution, let the visitor decide what route THEY want to take. Besides, all of you overlooked other avenues to use for due diligence. Here are my ideas and suggestion for newbies.

(1.) IF YOU USE A RECRUITER OR JOB AGENT:

a. Ask them these 7 questions to make sure that agent/recruiter is honest and working for you and not the school's interest
https://ruqqus.com/+TEFLReviews/post/78 ... r-job-scam

b. Whatever school or training center they recommend ask for a copy of the school's SAFEA registration and SAIC business license.

c. Ask for a copy of the employment contract that you sign with the school in English and scrutinize it and look for this stuff that is well-hidden. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeflReviews/co ... mployment/

d. If you can't get all of the above from an agent, get another agent or explore the DIY avenue


(2.) IF YOU GO THE DIRECT DIY ROUTE:

a. Decide where you want to work and how much you need to earn
http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-su ... &jobtype=1

b. If income is not your main concern, pick a public school or university in the destination city or town you prefer
(Get a free list from SAFEA, CTA, or CFTU)

c. If income is a main concern find and use the white and blacklists of the CTA, CFTU, and China Scam Watch, or if you are already in China, go to a SAFEA office and ask them for a list of registered schools and training centers in your destination city, (All Safea registered schools should have a SAIC business license and be a safe and trustworthy place to work. Look at https://ruqqus.com/+ChinaTEFL or https://reddit.com/r/tefl_tips_traps_scams for these lists.

As a TEFL teacher working in China almost 10 years these are my suggestions. I also think newbies should only take advice from people that have nothing to sell them, no tefl courses, language lessons, visa service, job placements, memberships, books, CDs etc. Also be aware of the many forum moderators or "friendly and helpful forum users who always make recommendations and referrals to agents or schools for referral fees that they will never disclose" (Excerpt from the CTA teacher's Welcome To China booklet". Good luck to all of you.

I think you nailed it. BUT I noticed a problem we all over-looked. Many of the scammers have been around for years and every-time they get exposed 2 or 3 times on line, they do one of three things... (1) They create a handful of new brands for advertising purposes (Example: I-to-I changed their name to OnlineTEFL.com, and again just recently they changed it to LoveTEFL.com. So now it is one big scam with three different brands, or maybe evn more that we don't even know about. (2) they hire a "reputation manager manager" (aka a hacker) who magically push the warning links of the first two pages of search results with a lot of bogus self-reviews that say how great they are. Or (3) They accuse some "big competitor" of trying to sabotage their business.

So even though you explained two different ways to find a safe scam-free teaching job in China, we need a centralized way expose the scam artists with real time fraud warnings. I honestly cannot think of way unless we all promoted just on central like https://reddit.com/r/TeflScams which would not cost us any money, or we chipped in like $50 each we could a new independent website like https://reddit.com/+TEFLReviews since Reddit will delete stuff if you pay them enough money ($20,000 is the current rate they want). But then we need a pro-active webmaster to filter out the garbage and disgruntle teachers who deserved to be fired. Any ideas? (Hey... can you send me a PM and tell me how you got your photo to show up? Thanks)

[John V55]

I’ll finish my involvement with this thread by saying this. It’s not about liking or disliking links, it’s about being against spammers. When you have three anonymous characters all turning up at the same time and all repeatedly linking out to the same link farm pages, it’s more than just a coincidence. They all have links leading back to CFTU and it’s both embarrassingly amateurish and obvious. Should we all contribute $50 proposed by Atlas to scam pages that warn about scam sites? :lol:

It’s not a coincidence these anonymous scam pages link out from ‘anything goes’ sites like ruqqus, Reditt and wordpress, promoted by the same anonymous spammers.

The TEFL industry includes a huge private business sector within which there will be at best misleading advertising and at worse, outright scams. It’s not a coincidence that those thousands sitting in deportation centers every year have been scammed by promises of ridiculously high salaries in the private sector and are now complaining of the likewise greedy recruiters who scammed them. I find it amusing that in a developing country someone believes they’re going to get more with a 150 hour TEFL certificate than a professionally qualified teacher would in a western first world country! If you were scammed by the same greed, roll your eyes and give yourself a well-deserved slap instead of trying to encourage others to join in the same stupidity.

Scams rely on greed and while greedy people exist so will scams. It therefore seems a waste of time endlessly repeating, here’s one scam and there’s another one. In an ideal world businesses masquerading as ‘schools’ would be banned. Unfortunately, that’s not going to happen and so the answer would be to warn of scam techniques instead of the current in-fighting of scammers trying to expose competition scammers.

Turning this particular thread into a spam link out doesn’t particularly bother me as it’s just an off-the-cuff one, but I think a TEFL expose of the whole privatized sorry mess would benefit everyone as well as give a warning to those the scam sites are trying to entice and that definitely includes the current link farm ones here. Those of you who are in China and are promoting this illegal ‘Union’ will not only be on their database, but almost guaranteed to be on that of the PSB and living on borrowed time. Good luck with that one. :)

[Atlas]

Mr. John, I have been impartial throughout this argument you have with Cricket and will remain impartial. But you remind me too much of my father to not tell you this as a friend..The older people get the more they are absolutely sure their way is always the best and others must agree. But in this case of scam warning links, most young teachers are not going to agree with your point of view - only because they don't care about the methods used to warn people so long as they don't get swindled! Those links have saved me from making a horrible choice more than once because with all these modern chain schools look can be deceiving and once you sign a contract you might lock yourself into a stressful mess of a job where you get very little of what was promised. Most people don't like being cheated or swindled sir. And not everyone cares whether other people get scalped but I do and when I post a warning link, it is with the hope that someone else will do the same for me so that we can protect one another as we go. This personal strategy will help to counter the "greed and deceit" that you admit will always be around in the TEFL markets.

As for the CFTU, CTA, and China Scam Watch I have nothing bad to say about them and value the information they have been putting out for a decade which has never proved to be false. I am also going to bail from this thread. I know that just like my dad and everyone else's father, you will never change your point of view, but that is cool with me, because one day I will also grow old and obstinate. But I will leave you all with one link that I found at my most useful site on reddit that I check once a week (r/tefl_tips_traps_scams)... https://www.reddit.com/r/TEFL_TIPS_TRAP ... these_web/ Stay healthy Mr. John and watch out for that Covid!

[Cricket]

I just had a final thought because the evening news about gun control debate made me see a correlation. Like my dad always use to tell me "It's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it!". It's hard to argue with that logic and I think the same theory applies to scam warning links. It's better to have access to scam links and not need them than to need them, and not have them. For the handful of people who don't like scam links, I think most people would tell them the same advice DON'T OPEN AND READ THEM! For those who think they may need them one day, save this link and keep it handy, and let's hope you never need them. https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaTeachers/ ... the_tools/. Everyone has a point of view, and some views smell better than others.

[Atlas]

I stumbled upon a new scam reporting link that covers all expat professions not just teachers. I know that in China a lot of expats who start of as teachers, are working at a better paying job in about three years. So you may want to keep this link tucked away for the future, just in case you discover you don't have the patience for teaching! https://reddit.com/r/workabroadfraud

[Vagabond]

I am not sure who you are addressing, the OP or someone else? However, the reason we have all the China scams is because THE SCAMMERS ARE TRYING TO STEAL OUR MONEY, not our wristwatch or good looks! It doesn't matter if you earn a little or a lot, they want as much of it as they can get. Do you disagree? So aside from going the DIY route, I think every foreign teacher applicant in ANY country, (but especially china) should know as much as possible about the companies/schools they apply to. I don't know anyone who wants to earn less money than more, BUT the real emphasis should be on the following IMO:

1) Does the employer have a SAIC business license (which makes them legit and legally accountable)

2) Is the employer registered with SAFEA, which means they can legally hire foreign employees

3) Is your contract fair and not ambiguous, and not one that waives your 22 employee rights

Once you determine these three things, then you should focus on your total compensation package and not just money. Are they providing free and acceptable housing, or a housing subsidy? Are you a full-time or part-time employee? This alone will determine if you are even eligible for over-time pay, medical insurance, paid holidays, vacations, and bonuses.

So no, the primary focus is NOT money, but which employers have a history of not meeting the above requirements. To check that you can try using any of these three links, none of which prioritize money but may highlight the greed of the fraudsters identified;

https://abroadreviews.com/search/node/scam

https://reddit.com/r/teflscams

So in the end, do you think you are better of with the warnings of other teacher colleagues who have already traveled the path upon which you are about to embark or not? Either way, good luck to you on the journey!

https://www.docdroid.net/ZU9pFSI/cftu2020blacklist-pdf

[John V55]

I’ve never disputed a DIY approach, what I dispute is the greed you promote by the links you post to. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a recruiter or school, your constant fixation about money means you’ll always be a target and always have problems.

It’s almost impossible to adopt a DIY approach in China because the process is so regulated. The bureaucracy and required paperwork, invitation letters, corruption … China is not a place where you can just turn up as you could in the west and make your own deal.

What you have to remember is that these people are spammers and the lead as always is money, with repetitive links to anonymous web pages. The safest approach is to go into the state school system which excludes the get rich quick crowd and the majority of the private for profit set-ups where the scams are coming from.

[Vagabond]

Actually John, I have to disagree with you. I have been finding my own gigs for the last 6 years quite easily and four of my colleagues have been doing the same. Here are the contacts and instructions https://www.reddit.com/r/CFTU/comments/ ... t_hire_ap/

[John V55]

Actually John, I have to disagree with you. I have been finding my own gigs for the last 6 years quite easily and four of my colleagues have been doing the same. Here are the contacts and instructions https://www.reddit.com/r/CFTU/comments/ ... t_hire_ap/[/size]

Have they been arrested and deported as well? :) Some of the private TEFL bottom end larger ones will hire directly, but you won’t be getting the promised huge salaries.
I did follow your usual anonymous (CFTU) ruqqus link and then followed the one with instructions which led me to a page: ‘+China TEFL is banned – Reason: Spam.’ Now imagine my surprise … :lol:

[John V55]

I just feel sorry for those who will get caught up in all this and what starts out as an information inquiry of employment adventure abroad turns into a nightmare of broken promises, arrest and deportation. Illegal unions, a never ending series of anonymous poster links to anonymous web pages promising huge salaries in the shady world of privatized TEFL business.

Those that have previously been scammed and didn’t learn their lesson now lead others into the same murky world, still searching for that elusive Holy Grail of riches waiting to be discovered in a developing country. Imagine the disappointment when all it produces is a seemingly endless succession of links eventually pointing to an illegal Chinese Foreign Teachers Union who tell them they’re worth more than a registered teacher in a first-world western economy.

Greed, it’s an age old enticement but only works on the greedy and gullible. You won’t discover something that doesn’t exist, but if you fall for it you will suffer the consequences previously suffered by those now leading you down that path. Stay safe, be professional and work for state schools when possible and leave the promise of fantasy salaries to the anonymous webpages and the illegal CFTU where they belong.

[Atlas]

Teachers who utilize the scam reporting links will at least have a far greater chance of avoiding all the greedy scam operators that John and the others speak about above. Most people would not try to cross the highway wearing a blindfold, and it makes sense not to attempt to find jobs abroad in foreign countries using complete strangers! I personally recommend an hour of reading on these links at reddit before you even think of sending a resume or passport scans overseas;

https://reddit.com/r/tefl_tips_traps_scams

https://reddit.com/r/teflreviews

https://reddit.com/r/cftu (you will find about 5,000 direct employers there with no fees or strings attached)

If you suspect you are dealing with a scammer, also check here to make sure you are not! https://reddit.com/r/teflscams

[John V55]

People who use the links will be directed to a never ending series of anonymous, low-quality and useless spam pages – as in the post above. Two things to remember: a) The scams arise in the private sector and b) If you’re not prepared to send in scans of your resume or passport when applying for a job overseas, you’re very unlikely to get hired.

[Blue Moon]

You know, all this bla bla bla about what others should do, I think if people want to be safe and use a blacklist or scam links, or not, it is their mistake to make - not yours and not mine. IMO opinion we just don't know what we don't know, and I hate people who think they always know everything and have to have the last word in a forum even if everyone disagrees with the guy. I leave you all with this https://abroadreviews.com/search/node/scam and ask one question... If you did not see this "scam link" how else would you have found out about these traps waiting for all of us to just take their bait?

[John V55]

The difference between you spammers and I Blue Moon, is that I don’t need to continually link out to anonymous spam pages. It’s not that I know best, it’s that I know what you’re doing and warn against it. I will never have the last word and beat organized spammers, but I will get my word in amongst the spam and the scammy union that’s at the bottom of all this. You're not here to warn of anything, you're here to link out to spam pages. Don’t get upset, enjoy. :)

[Blue Moon]

I believe in freedom of speech and expression. Everyone has their own way of communicating. Some people try to bully others into agreeing with them. Others just lay out the facts and let people choose what to believe. Others try to present their opinions as gospel facts. And yet others choose to include links or cartoons to underscore, source. or give an example of the point they are trying to make. Then there are those that use forums to advertises themselves in hopes of finding work, and yet others who are not who they say they are and try to recruit anyone who wanders onto the forum with questions. All of these people are free to express themselves how they choose and the rest of us are free to analyze and interpret what we read.

As for scam reporting sites, I think they can save people a lot of time money and grief and I use them only when I am in the market for a new job, a vacation, or something expensive I buy on line. When it comes to China and my TEFL work I normally use these links and highly recommend them to others;

https://reddit.com/r/teflscams
https://reddit.com/r/tefl_tips_traps_scams
https://eslwatch.info
https://reddit.com/r/chinascamcentral
https://reddit.com/r/chinateachers

And if I still have doubts, I will check the white and blacklists of the CTA, CFTU, ETA, China Scam Patrol and ChinaScamWatch.org. And since joining this forum, I have learned to check and verify the SAIC business license and SAFEA registration of every potential employer and avoid job agents and recruiters. I think this gives me a broader view of thing rather than listening to one guy on a forum whose only China teaching experience is for a public school in Mongolia which may be a beautiful place for some and a desolate ice box for others. But I can at least respect the choices and communication skills and methods of everyone who joins this forum.