Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

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John V55
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Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby John V55 » 25 Aug 2017, 10:06

There is an article on the Chinese Daily that accuses the CFTU of being a scam itself and has this to say and as others are putting up links, here it is:

https://chinadailymail.com/2013/03/25/china-foreign-teachers-union-could-be-another-chinese-scam/

Two snippets from the link. Is this starting to happen on TEFL.net? My anti-spam radar is starting to twitch :)

"CFTU have edited all their websites to remove traces of the adverse matters reported in the main story, and have spammed this site with propaganda about themselves."

(Chinese Daily) "Editor’s Note: Since this article was written, China Daily Mail has been the target of a malicious and defamatory spam campaign, operated by CFTU and many aliases. One of these aliases offered to remove all the defamatory material for a hefty fee, confirming that the operation is extortion."

I wouldn’t go anywhere near these people, no matter what freebies they offer and here are the reasons why.

The site contains so many misleading statements and inaccuracies, but let’s put a few of their myths to rest. The misleading statements are that they are comparing native teachers salaries to western ones, but not telling you that. You are a foreigner and will earn far more than a native. Even at the bottom end, you shouldn’t be earning less than 6.5k Yuan a month ($1,000), plus the free accommodation and all the rest of the add-ons, which probably near doubles it. Add onto that a very low tax system and cheap cost of living and you’ve just entered a middle-class lifestyle - and that’s at entry level.
The inaccuracies are that although the statistics look genuine, from personal experience I can tell you that some of them are false.

Let’s take a brief look at their first page.

[1] You can’t compare western salaries to Chinese ones and that’s because the cost of living is far cheaper here and my tax is between 4 to 5%, with no UK VAT, or US sales tax. Also factor into the salary, free accommodation, internet, medical insurance . . .

[2] They state, " If only we could pay our mortgages and car payments with prestige!" Is that using a Chinese salary to pay a western mortgage? It’s not meant to be used for that and you couldn’t. However, two to three years work in China will buy you a foreign type condo in a holiday resort by the sea in S.E. Asia, to use as a holiday home, retirement, or just a base to operate from.

[3] Education - Industry. Where they got these figures from is anybody’s guess. The average education salary is 40k Yuan a year? That’s 3,300 a month and yes, for a Chinese teacher starter salary that might be true, but not for foreigners and so that’s misleading at best. Which foreigner earns that amount, that’s absolute rubbish. Even someone with limited experience is going to earn double that, with extra add-ons as well.

[4] It states that the average annual income in Thailand is $8k, (266,400 Thai bahts), which divided by twelve is 22,200 Bahts a month. No it’s not, I worked in Thailand and the average Thai salary is between 30k and 35k a month for NES and has been for the past couple of decades.

And that’s just half way down the first page!

Don’t believe everything you hear on the Internet. Certainly get advice, but do your own research and ask around. China is actively looking for English teachers and if you want to work here and have the right qualifications, you will enjoy a middle-class lifestyle and none of the criminality, mass unemployment and drugs in the west.
It’s conservative, traditional and if, like me, that’s what you like, it’s here waiting for you. Don’t believe the western propaganda; if you want more information from someone who is actually here, instead of anonymous posters and links, PM me. I’m not hiding behind a veil of anonymity and I’ll send you my personal fact sheet link which gives the real details and insights into working here.

Any chance of posting links to educational articles that I’ve written myself @Joe
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Nathan
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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby Nathan » 27 Aug 2017, 06:50

Hi John,

Glad to see you enjoyed Inner Mongolia, surely some of the most beautiful landscape in China during the springtime. I worked in Wuhai back when Erdos was the biggest ghost town in the world. I very much enjoy their Nadam festival every July. I hope you are in good health and spirits.

But I have to take exception with your comments about the CDTU especially since you based it on the word of Craig Hill, who you probably didn't know was a moderator from Echinacities.com who wrote that article at the direction of Echinacities after they learned they were going to be exposed for selling resumes as you can read here http://chinascamwatch.worpress.com. Craig's user name at ECC was "Traveller" and Craig himself was exposed in many places including here. https://chinadailymailscam.wordpress.co ... nt-page-1/ and also here: chinafraudpatrol.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/australian-kenneth-craig-hill-aka-craig.html

I know this because for 2 years I was a volunteer with the CFTU (my job was answering emails 2 hours a day 3 times a week). Later Craig actually came forward and helped the CFTU expose Echinacities after he resigned from there and he posted this article: chinadailymail.com/2013/12/18/echinacities-expat-website-now-a-propaganda-machine/

Unless and until you attend a CFTU coffee house meeting I would say you are barking up the wrong tree John and although I am no longer a volunteer with them because I moved out of Beijing, I still support their efforts. This link will tell you why: http://opnlttr.com/search/node/cftu. And I just now looked at their website for the first time in a year and see they are giving away more free stuff including VPNs and a DIY job search kit with 320 employer contacts.

Now if you happen to be a teacher recruiter (are you?) I can understand why you might not like some of the stuff they say but you should really attack their message and not the messenger John. Can you disprove something they published or are you miffed that maybe some teacher asked to see a copy of your SAIC business license? Seriously, John, I know your intentions are good and I have always enjoyed your comments, but you are not aware of the full story and are basing your comments on a 2013 article written by a dubious character who later attempted to redeem himself.
Last edited by Nathan on 27 Aug 2017, 06:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby Nathan » 27 Aug 2017, 06:56

P.S. Oooops, I forgot to include their website so you can search it and find anything they said that is not factual or is inaccurate: http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com. What is the "myth" that you referred to?

And this is the link to give you more background on Craig Hill http://chinafraudpatrol.blogspot.co.uk/ ... craig.html. And lastly this is the first article where Craig finally came out and spilled the beans on Echinacities and became allies with the CFTU against the scammers http://chinadailymail.com/2013/12/18/ec ... a-machine/. And I want to make it very clear I am not accusing you John of anything improper except maybe being a little hasty in your comments about the CFTU. Stay well.

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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby John V55 » 27 Aug 2017, 08:37

No, I am not a recruiter and have no affiliations with any organisation – I’m completely independent. I’ve looked at their site and I’d avoid it like the plague and that’s from someone with a Masters degree in criminology and a related western police background.

I’ll just say this ‘anonymous Nathan’; it’s obvious who you and your equally anonymous friends here are and what you’re up to. It’s obvious to me and it will become obvious to the Administrators of this forum in the end, just like it did for China Daily. A bit harsh and to the point, but I stick to what I’ve just said. I’ve been in China long enough not to be taken in by all this and I spotted you lot months ago, but haven’t said anything up to now hoping you’d go away.

To the others reading this: My advice is stay away from the types of link sites trying to pretend they’re helping you that are pouring out of here. Eventually, they will all lead back to CFTU. They’re baits and if you are in China, stay away from foreign ‘unions’ and anything political. These links are not trying to help you, they’re here to bait you.

Welcome to the sharks of China, you’re having your first experience of them :)
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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby Nathan » 27 Aug 2017, 09:01

Sorry you have such angst for me John. I am no longer affiliated with the CFTU and am a TTT now. I also do some Biz English tutoring as well. But you still did not say what if any information they put out that is not factual. Ad hominem arguments only reflect your own personal bias. Did you have some beef with them or did they somehow cheat you? From what I remember, the CFTU does not sell nor promote anything, nor did they even sell advertising when I was there in 2012-2014. I'm not sure if anything changed? I am not sure where you are working these days but the next time you are in Beijing, I suggest you meet up with either Gregg or Denise (the 2 CFTU co-administrators) and have a heart to heart chat. In the meantime, you may also want to take a look at this https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaScamCentr ... ftu_china/. BTW... The

You comments about the salaries is something a recruiter would say IMO. SInce I arrived in China I never earned less than 18,000 a month as a real teachers, with a degree in education and being a native-English speaker. That was a long time ago. Today I earn almost 30,000 a month and have a furnished apartment as well compliments of one of my employers. Lets be real here John... About 80% of the ads for teaching jobs found online come with "low-ball" salaries so the recruiters, job agents, and visa agents posting the ads, can pocket or "skim" a few thousand every month for themselves. If you deny this, then I will surely think you are indeed doing some recruiting on the side. Go to scam.com and search for "The Silent Scam" or look at this typical contract used by recruiters in China https://myalbum.com/album/Qt6TWGP0olx3. I did my homework John and learned a lot about this stuff as a CFTU volunteer. I am not saying all the recruiters are crooks, but most of them are greedy and dishonest. At best 20% are not skimming or scamming their clients some way - somehow.

The CFTU is not a political or religious group as you implied. In the entire 2 years I volunteered with them, I never heard any politics discussed at any meetings other than some speculations as to who the next President in China and America might be. Stay well John.

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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby John V55 » 27 Aug 2017, 10:04

Read the op again. I’m a bit too old and experienced to be drawn in Nathan, save it for the younger ones ;)

There aren’t many things I dislike in life Nathan, but preying on the weak, or even gullible, is one of them. It’s enough that someone is considering coming to the other side of the world, with all the worries and uncertainty that entails, without being preyed on by the sharks before they even get here.

I’m nearing retirement and have nothing to sell, no axe to grind and no affiliations. I don’t hide behind anonymity and link out to sites at every opportunity and the only information I will ever give will be to help. That’s a rare trait nowadays and even more rare in Asia.
This is not my forum, but I have already voiced my concerns to Admin and stated them on here and warned people. I’ve done my bit.
BTW, my qualifications are verifiable, I have a blue book and a legal PSB visa, just so you and your organisation know.
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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby Murphy » 27 Aug 2017, 12:06

Hey gents - people have a right to disagree yes? Having read all this I think it is fair to ask what is the information that is in dispute John? I mean Nathan was not being disrespectful, he was asking you to explain what are the "myths" you don't want people to believe. He also provided you links that pretty much confirm his rebuttal to you. So why are you angry and getting defensive? If this is about the salary issue you brought up, I can say that from my years of teaching in China there are basically two kinds of teachers... those that sign whatever contract they are given and those that negotiate a better deal for themselves. Those of us who have been in China a while no better than to take anything less than 15,000 a month unless it is a public school or university. All things are relative right? And of course people will compare teacher's salary everywhere with what teachers "back home" get - along with the local and "back home" cost of living. The only salary chart I see put out by the CFTU are those they are quoting from other sources like the Huffington Post.

Also, you appear to be quoting from someplace but you do not give a link. So for the sale of clarity and credibility can you give us the link you are quoting from so we can see it all in context as well? Whether we agree with your point of view or not, we should be able to have an understanding of what "myths" the CFTU is presenting. The only thing that baffles me is why the CFTU has a .org and a .com website? I don't think anyone on this forum has anything but good karma for you and the other users. I am not taking any sides here until I am sure I know what info is being disputed.

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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby John V55 » 27 Aug 2017, 12:33

Murphy, I’ve already said that I’m not going to be drawn into your CFTU group discussions. I’m fully aware of who and what your little group are. It’s not my forum, you can make as many links to CFTU as you like, I’ve had my say. People themselves can decide who or what to believe.
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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby Skyler » 28 Aug 2017, 00:43

According to the TEFL people at Reddit, the average salary in China today for a veteran TEFL teacher is 16,500 yuan per month. https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaTEFL/comm ... _teachers/. Maybe John is not charging his students enough and they are all getting a great deal! Btw... 16,500 yuan is about $3,000 a month or $36,000 a year. I know the American teachers get paid about 20%-30% more.

As for the CFTU thing, I went to a meeting of about 40 people last year at Peking University. Not many newbies were there and it was interesting but not for me since they want all the new members to volunteer 4 hours a week for 3 months emailing and handing out flyers to teachers. Before going to the meeting I was told by colleagues to expect someone to preach the Bible to me, but that didn't happen. Nobody tried to hustle me to buy anything so I think they are harmless. I did get some free stuff and a subscription to their monthly newsletter. About six months ago they named TEFL.net as one of the three top job boards for TEFL in the world btw. That also popped up at reddit not long ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/TEFLScams/comm ... rated_the/.

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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby Volunteer » 30 Aug 2017, 01:54

My first job in China paid me 12,000 a month plus a furnished apartment. That was five years ago. I am now earning 20,000 a month and I never found my jobs through any BS ad online. If someone offers you less than 12,000 a month they plan to skim part of your salary or it is a public school in some rural area with a low budget.

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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby John V55 » 30 Aug 2017, 12:33

I was going to answer that, until I saw you’re also one of the anonymous ones, who I’ve made a point of not getting into discussions with. In fact, I’ll probably start giving this place more of a miss until a few get cleared out off here.
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Re: Why you shouldn’t believe the CFTU myths about China

Unread postby Saturn » 31 Aug 2017, 01:09

I just read this at reddit last night and am happy to get all the free contacts. https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaTEFL/comm ... l_teacher/ The fact they aren't selling them tells me a lot about the group. Regarding the salary discussion, I remember when I first came to China a few years ago how I got low-balled and ended up doing a midnight run after I realized all my foreign friends were earning almost double than I was. Then I found this website and smartened up really quick...http://www.chinascambusters.com. For the last two years I have earned over 18,000 and learned to never accept any first offer made to me by new employers. I used to believe the recruiters but I don't anymore and my last job I got without one.


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