A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

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Cricket
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A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by Cricket »

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Anyone who spent any time at ESLCafe already knows about this topic. I am talking about where the mods are really moonlighting TEFL recruiters and sit in wait like a spider waiting for some newbie to come along and ask a simple question like "What do I need to know to get a teaching job in China?" The mod will be friendly and helpful and answer the question but may omit key information like the mandatory Z visa and verifiable bachelor degree and police certificate. Then within minutes the mod or one of his many sock puppet user accounts will send a follow-up PM that "highly recommends a great recruiter I have worked with for years" and that newbie will be given an email or phone number to the recruiting agency that is either owned by the mod himself or from where he collects a referral fee (typically $500). The mod usually does the PM referral with a sock puppet account in case the newbie catches on and decides to blow the whistle. ESLCafe has been doing this for over a decade, and over a hundred scammers have caught on according to the China Scam Patrol which has posted a report and many warnings about this. Here is one excerpt from one of their reports at https://chinascamreport.wordpress.com about how to spot these lurking mole mods "or others posing as a wise veteran TEFL teachers with years of experience":

QUOTE:

"Spotting these undercover mole recruiters is not difficult since they usually fit this profile:

* Their post history will span at least 2-5 years, or even longer

* They will be the most frequent poster and actually post some good advice from time to time

* They will criticize and scorn anyone who posts scam and fraud alerts about TEFL recruiters and black schools

* They will usually provide links (real or fake) that blow their own horn like a Masters or Phd degree in Education, some diploma from an Ivy League School or a resume reflecting years of prestigious teaching experience. Almost always these are fake documents.

* If they are questioned or challenged on the forum, they will ban them if they are mods, and if they are not mods, they will do their best to get the accusers banned with the Admin of the forum.

* If they are asked specific questions about their experience, they tend to change the subject or try to discredit the users that are questioning them.

* If they are close to being exposed these covert recruiters will start post comments that everyone on the forum are anonymous, cannot be trusted, and may be actually competing with him as a fellow recruiter.

* Sometimes they will post benevolent photos like a young smiling woman in her 30s or an old man who look like trusted librarians to garnish trust from the users on the forum.

Despite all this deception they are occasionally caught and outed as you can see in this post at one such forum https://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic ... fl-forums/

We therefore urge all expats seeking employment overseas to be wary of forum users who fit the above profile, especially if they start receiving PMs (personal messages) after posting their first few comments on that forum. Almost without exception, they will be the covert TEFL mole recruiter. Big sites like ESLCafe will have a handful, and smaller forums will have at least one."

There are three ways to avoid this clever trap;

1. Never send your resume or personal info to anyone you meet online

2. Follow this advice religiously:
https://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewforum.php?f=20

3. If you do follow through and make contact with recruiters or schools referred to you on-line quietly and calmly ask them these 7 questions BEFORE you send them your resume or passport scan: https://opnlttr.com/letter/china-esl-te ... am-artists

Good luck to all of you in your China career adventures!


UNQUOTE
Before sending off your resume or passport scan, be sure to check https://reddit.com/r/teflscams and https://ruqqus.com/+TEFLFraud to vaccinate yourself against foreign teacher job scams.
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Atlas
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by Atlas »

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Well now, I guess we don't need Sherlock Holmes to tell us who on this TEFL.net forum fits the profile described by the China Scam Patrol since there is only one user on this forum who has over 300 posts , a 5+ year history here, and constantly posts s resume and urges visitor to work for public school in Inner Mongolia. Cricket you called it about a month ago. I apologize for not believing you back then.
Look Before You Leap at https://reddit.com/r/teflscams
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Blue Moon
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by Blue Moon »

I suppose that is a very clever way to recruit teachers - stealth sales!
Watch your step in China. There is a pile of shit waiting for your foot around every corner that only laowai seem to step in. See https://reddit.com/r/workabroadfraud.
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Vagabond
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by Vagabond »

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I think the only people who don't know about these con artists by now are the wannabe teacher prospects, or the newbies searching online forums for their first or second jobs abroad. I think Joe himself warned about these characters about 5 years ago in one of his scam posts. The real problem is some of these forum recruiters are so well camouflaged, and so "friendly and helpful" with their visible advice, and convincing in their invisible PMs (personal messages) that they can go undetected for years. At ESLCafe they are obvious and at reddit they were caught back in 2016 https://www.opnlttr.com/letter/reddit-m ... l-teachers.

They will always be with us, because when one gets caught, either another will quickly activate and take their place, or they will just create a new user account and start the game all over again. Newbies will always learn their lessons the hard way, and then they become super astute and on red alert until they learn the score from the veterans. If you want to no about other similar traps, you may want to visit https://reddit.com/r/TEFL_tips_traps_scams or reddit.com/r/TEFLscams which are recruiter-free
Before taking any teaching job in China make a quick visit over to https://reddit.com/r/ChinaScamCentral and https://reddit.com/r/TEFLreviews so your dream job does not become a nightmare.
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Tiger
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by Tiger »

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I will now just ignore anything that guy posts here. I was curious why he was always promoting the public schools of China and how wonderful it was to work in Mongolia. I now understand what he is trying to accomplish.
I suggest every TEFL teacher take a visit to https://reddit.com/r/TEFLscams BEFORE they send off their resumes.
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John V55
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by John V55 »

Tiger wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 01:55 Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I will now just ignore anything that guy posts here. I was curious why he was always promoting the public schools of China and how wonderful it was to work in Mongolia. I now understand what he is trying to accomplish.
I’ve never said that anyone should listen to what I say. I just offer an opinion and don’t use click baits to promote the opinions of others. I suppose we can all learn from veterans, but young people who have already been scammed are hardly ones to offer advice.

I personally enjoyed Mongolia, but agree it’s not to everyone’s taste. I do promote state schools because I’d hate to see the unsuspecting go down the same scam ridden path you lot have gone down. Having said that, I suppose at your scammy bottom end of TEFL you would need to be on red alert.
Before following CFTU click baits take a quick look at https://www.opnlttr.com/letter/china-fo ... scammed-me
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Cricket
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by Cricket »

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Isn't it odd that John has been asked about five times when was the last year he actually taught in China and he just stays mum about that? Going back through his posts five years, I see that he has been posting his resume. I don't discriminate against age, but things change a lot in five years, especially government requirements, and COVID salaries, and this guy keeps preaching to everyone as if he is the reigning expert on China TEFL affairs and he may have been out of the country for years, like the former manager of Dell English who was deported for tax fraud 15 years ago and also now recruits TEFL teachers online for China as if he is still in the game. Thus are the deceptions of online recruiters. BTW... China will not give you a work visa after age 60 unless you own your own business and have a minimum of 10 Chinese employees.

John has given some good advice in the past, don't get me wrong. But recently he has given some outdated information on COVID salaries for expats working in China and he was not aware of the 22 employee rights every expat has in China, which are very important to know, or how to legally break-out of a bad contract without loss of income nor visa. You can get all this info from the CTA, CFTU, ETA, or by visiting https://reddit.com/r/TEFL_tips_traps_scams My point is this, if you want to know what the cuurent scenery and work conditions are in a foreign country 5,000 miles away, don't ask a blind man who has not even been there in years.
Before sending off your resume or passport scan, be sure to check https://reddit.com/r/teflscams and https://ruqqus.com/+TEFLFraud to vaccinate yourself against foreign teacher job scams.
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John V55
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by John V55 »

I’ve already told you several times. I taught right up to the end of my leaving which was January 2018.

Wrong information as usual. You can’t get a new visa after 60, but if you’re at a school and both parties agree, you can keep working up until around 64/65. Anyway, having been outed as a member of CFTU by CFTU themselves, what’s it like being a volunteer spammer then? No seriously, do you get paid for it or do they tell you what to write? How does it work?
Before following CFTU click baits take a quick look at https://www.opnlttr.com/letter/china-fo ... scammed-me
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Vagabond
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by Vagabond »

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I am sorry John, but there is nothing in the Labor Laws of China that allows anyone over 60 years of age to teach for a public or private school, so whatever "arrangements" you are talking about would be illega Also unless you had one of the new 10 year visa before you turned 60, there is no way, as you said yourself, that you would get a new visa at age 30, although I believe you could always come back as a tourist at any age.

Having said that, I know a couple ages 67 and 62 who run their own Montessori in China but they have their own registered WOFE and by owning their own company in China they get around the age limits. And for the record I am against age-discrimination because people like yourself who are obviously sharp as a tack with all your mental faculties have the most valuable teaching experience the youngsters won't have for years. Hopefully you are still able to teach in the U.K. or at least tutor online. Assuming you are healthy you may want to consider finding a partner to fund your own WOFE in China if you still have the urge to teach. Good luck to you John.
Before taking any teaching job in China make a quick visit over to https://reddit.com/r/ChinaScamCentral and https://reddit.com/r/TEFLreviews so your dream job does not become a nightmare.
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John V55
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by John V55 »

It is not the labour law you’re under in China, it’s the immigration law that decides whether you go or stay. The Labour law is only concerned with your employment conditions, not your residency or SAFEA working ‘blue book.’ I left in January 2018 approaching the age of 63 after a hint that it was time to start thinking about retirement. I would hardly have been working illegally with the permission of SAFEA. It is true that after the age of 60 you will not get a new job, but not that the current age limit can’t be extended for a short period of time if you’re currently already in employment.

I suppose I could have left and sneaked back into the underworld of scammy language centres and the like, but I’m not that desperate and chose not to go down that road … I’m against age discrimination, but accept the laws and conditions of the country I’m in.
Before following CFTU click baits take a quick look at https://www.opnlttr.com/letter/china-fo ... scammed-me
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Blue Moon
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Re: A Warning about TEFL Forum Recruiter Moles and their stealth methods...

Unread post by Blue Moon »

Personally I think older teachers are the best because they have the most experience - assuming they are not having medical issues that impair them mentally. Looking back over my life, my own favorite teachers were the oldest ones who had the most patience and genuine concern for me and my learning process.
Watch your step in China. There is a pile of shit waiting for your foot around every corner that only laowai seem to step in. See https://reddit.com/r/workabroadfraud.
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