Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol)?

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Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol)?

Unread postby desozx » 22 Apr 2010, 12:43

Hello Guys,

I'll like to take up a TESOL course here in Singapore and I'm looking at all the options. There are a lot of schools that offer Diplomas courses in Tesol (certified by LTTC) and a couple that offer Certificate courses which are certified by Intesol.

Was browsing through the forum doing my bit of research and I notice that there are a couple of dodgy cases regarding the LTTC - people not getting their certificates, lack of accreditation etc. Most of these cases are for students who took up online distance learning, so I'm not particularly sure if it will affect me.

Funny thing is the longer and more intensive diplomas courses (LTTC) are actually cheaper than the certificate courses (Intesol). That kinda cast doubts in my mind with LTTC's courses. Their breakdown of modules do look to be meatier than the certificate ones though.

Anyone has any advice and additional information concerning these two courses? Thanks a lot in advance!
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby systematic » 22 Apr 2010, 20:28

Like almost all multi-branch course providers, the LTTC courses offered outside the UK are run by organisations who have either purchased a franchise, or licensed the course. The quality of the course depends therefore on the efficiency and professionalism of the local provider (franchisee), and not on the franchiser.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby desozx » 27 Apr 2010, 13:14

That was spot on advice.. why didn't I even consider that in the beginning? I've went to both schools, talked to the lecturers and administrators and have since made my choice. Thanks a bunch, Systematic :)
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby kentze » 24 Jun 2010, 03:54

I, too, am baffled by the course fee offered by Intesol and LTTC. The "same" dip tesol but Intesol's fee is almost twice as much (of course its course duration too is twice as long!). But both diplomas are accredited as being at NQF Level 5. I wonder why?

Just before registering yesterday, I contacted LTTC (via email) yesterday and requested for the tutor's or tutors' profiles/qualifications but was only given this reply: "All our tutors hold a first degree, a diploma in TESOL or equivalent and a minimum of five years teaching experience." They did not even tell me how many tutors they have. On their website they only list ONE with just his name! I'm still awaiting their reply. And I'm now considering whether to take Intesol's/or Tesol-direct cert Tesol instead. Any advice would be much appreciated.

No doubt, LTTC is still on top of my list, but I've started to have doubts. The question: "why don't they list their tutors like Intesol or Tesol-direct?" is popping up in my head. I thought this should be made transparent... And I too is a strong believer in this quote I read somewhere: "The most important part of ANY good TEFL courses is its trainers./tutors."
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby chocolate » 04 Sep 2010, 23:06

I also don't think listing tutors is a factor. Anyone can put a picture up and say nice things. Real transparency would be the ability to contact their past students and those students employers, although that would be a bit invasive...What is important is value for money. In my opinion Intesol is overpriced and I have had a problem getting my work graded (what's graded so far is all "A") and still no certificate.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby systematic » 06 Sep 2010, 12:34

I don't understand what all the problems are - in this day of Internet and email, have you all forgotten the good old telephone that has been around for nearly 120 years? Just call Sally and ask what the score is. She does answer the phone, and she doesn't bite. Tel o208 133 2027. Unike many online-providers, they even have a real street address.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby systematic » 11 Sep 2010, 07:40

- and always be aware of the course providers (and any othe organisation and company for that matter) who publish testimonials from satisfied customers and alumni. Such citations are almost always fake and are made up in the marketing departments and by the webmasters. It's a very old trick of the trade in advertising and one that is usually practiced by a struggling company, or one that is deliberately exploiting the naïvety of their potential clients, or a downright scam. Unfortunately, it works too; candidates for TEFL courses and jobs abroad regularly fall for the bait - perhaps they are more gullible than most ;)
The moral of the story of course is:

- Never accept an offer of employment abroad on a vague promise.
- Never pay any money up front.
- Beware of any job ads that appear to be just too good to be true.
- Avoid third-party job agencies.
- Finally, and most importantly, never look to teaching abroad as a last ditch solution for a job if you are out of work and out of funds - anyone going to work abroad, whatever the circumstances, should preferably take enough money with them to live on as if on holiday, for at least two or three months, to cover any contingency.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby kentze » 16 Sep 2010, 04:50

Time really zooms... I'm now about to complete Module 4 Dip TESOL (LTTC). So how do I find it? Course materials--comprehensive and up to date. I also like the way the questions are set--some require lots of further reading/research (and creativity too especially when designing lesson plans). Personal experience does play a significant role here. Tutor's response--quick n prompt. All in all, a wonderful and challenging experience. I intend to continue with the post Grad dip Tesol after this.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby kentze » 16 Sep 2010, 04:58

And to ian_g, chocolate and systematic: TQ for your helpful and constructive comments. :))
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby BECTESOL » 02 Oct 2010, 16:56

An LTTC Diploma in TESOL preparation course delivered by face-to-face classes of 100 plus hours with teaching practice incorporated (including effective feedback/workshop sessions) has the course content necessary for preparing you well for teaching ESOL in the classroom. You can avoid problems with courses leading to LTTC qualifications, other teaching qualifications, offshore degrees and the rest by paying regard to the deliverer, the school in Singapore or wherever else. Is it owned and operated for the bottom line with little regard to the student experience? Some LTTC course providers do not have permanent premises and are not registered with the authorities. In Singapore, they will only be able to offer certificate courses if they do not register with the new Council for Private Education (CPE) www.cpe.gov.sg - the body that in December 2009 replaced the Ministry of Education for registering private and international schools. If a school was previously registered with the Singapore Ministry of Education, it is now deemed registered with the CPE and has until June 2011 to complete formal re-registration.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby LiaMonica » 11 Feb 2011, 16:23

I have done my research in Singapore and I am absolutely confident that the LTTC is a Diploma Mill. Yes it is on Level 5 in the UK but that was NOT through the main body. It is through a private organisation that accredits. The CELTA is also a Level 5. And yes I noted someone mentioned they have a street address.. But have been there? Do a Google Earth and you will see its in an industrial estate with no signs of LTTC anywhere on the street frontage.

In Singapore, there are about 12 schools offering the LTTC Diploma. Between them they range in price ($1900 to $2700), training hrs (60hrs to 120hrs). The LTTC does not send assessors for each course taken or annually. Trainers need just do the Diploma in TESOL and are then qualified to train it the next day. So where is the quality assurance from LTTC? Do you see Cambridge allowing centres to offer CELTA with varying training hrs thats DOUBLED?

And I also found out that they are now working with the University of St Clements to offer the Masters in TESOL. Students will be allocated a LTTC trainer. The very same trainers who do the Diploma and then train it the very next day. St Clements University is in the Pacific Island and what respectable school will recognise this qualification? I presume the "school" at Peninsular Plaza is not registered with the govt to offer the Masters.

Finally, yes the LTTC LOOKS meatier but in reality it is so laced with theory. In that regard you cant deny its meatier. But schools want their teachers to be engaging and meet the 80:20 rule. And you can only get that with Teaching Practice and the LTTC has none of that.

And for being Deemed CPE registered, that does no way mean anything. Why dont schools regsitered under the old framework get reregistered under the new framework which is much more rigorous? Its because they know they cannot measure up.

I am a happy CELTA graduate and I am amazed at how muc traction the LTTC has gained in Singapore with the poor quality assurance it has shown. They rely on 2 things. The fact that there is the word London and the word diploma. And people gbet sucked into it.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby systematic » 13 Feb 2011, 07:55

There's a lot to be learned from reading this thread from the top, and all the other threads that mention LTTC (use the search box). Whatever their accreditations are and whatever their affiliations are, they have this in common with all online courses:

- There are no international accrediting systems for online TEFL courses
- You can't have your cake and eat it - and online courses cannot offer live training sessions or practical experience; note the difference between distance learning and online learning.

Also, as I have mentioned before, in just the same way as high street language institutes of the kind 'Roll up! Roll up! Learn English here now' operate, many TEFL courses are franchises. I suspect that the Singapore TEFL course providers have simply licenced the course materials, and the blank diploma certificates from LTTC and that is the limit of their connection.

If you're genuinely concerned about LTTC in Singapore, why don't you simply give Sally Marshall in London a call and get some first -hand answers to your questions? She's a real live person, and if you use Skype, the call is free.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby Alex Case » 13 Feb 2011, 14:51

Systematic

With all the things that have been said about LTTC here (including in other threads) and your own mixed feelings about them (e.g. be very careful which centre you choose), I'm really surprised you are sticking up for them at all. They tick a whole bunch of boxes on my list of reasons to avoid a TEFL course:

http://edition.tefl.net/articles/traini ... fl-course/
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby systematic » 14 Feb 2011, 01:35

I am not connected with LTTC in any way. I have employed dozens of teachers who have come to the interview bearing LTTC certificates. I know the course content intimately. I have no idea who assesses the assignments. For all I know it might be Sally herself. One thing is for sure, anyone doing the course will have only lacked the practical teaching experience that is endemic to all online courses.

There are real scams operating out there - let our readers try the one, for example, that uses an uninhabited derelict farmyard in Herefordshire as its address. Then start sleuthing around, and don't be surprised if the trail leads to a seaside town in Thailand.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby Alex Case » 14 Feb 2011, 02:24

There are also online courses which have a face to face teaching component, including the new online CELTA. As far as face to face courses go (which many people on this thread are talking about), there are plenty of non Cambridge and no Trinity ones who expect their trainers to have a proper diploma (Cambridge Delta or Trinity DipTESOL) or MA before they start training and who properly check up on courses that give their certificates. Most of those also have no connection to dodgy degree mills. Then there is the abuse of the word "Diploma..."

LTTC obviously have a severe case of money grubbing, and I would avoid them at all costs, if only for moral reasons but also because organisations that are obsessed with cash will sooner or later drop all pretence at academic standards. The quality of their course materials is neither here nor there. If it was the be all and end all, people could just read the Practice of English Language Teaching by Harmer on their own and then magically become great teachers.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby systematic » 14 Feb 2011, 04:10

I've worked with Harmer (not online, but side-by-side). He has never suggested that his book(s) should replace TESOL courses. Harmer's books however are a major course component of many, if not most TESOL courses.

If we are going to look for cases of money grubbing, then we need to start sifting through the flotsam on Thai beaches.

I know you are a strong supporter of CELTA - so am I, remember I also helped design the Cambridge TKT, but let's not start making a list of all the online courses that offer an f2f element vs all the ones that don't.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby Chalamar » 06 Apr 2011, 10:30

Hello. I'm new to all this. Non-native English speaker,I have a family life in Belgium and I have just decided to quit my hectic job and start a new life ... teaching English to kids! With a Business and International Relations Masters Degree and 20 years of worldwide commercial experience, I have no pedagogical background whatsoever nor teaching experience. I've been looking on the web for accredited online TEFL/TESOL courses with TEYLT specialisation and onsite teaching practice. I have shortlisted LTTC and Intesol International, both UK based. But I can't make up my mind. Reading all above posts about LTTC makes me even more confused now. What about Intesol International? They seem to be correctedly accredited (Ascentis + ADLQC).Their website is 100 times better than LTTC but is that a good sign? No such courses are delivered in Belgium, hence the online necessity. I can make myself free for a week in London to gain teaching practice but longer is difficult. Can anyone one help me make a sound choice?
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby Alex Case » 06 Apr 2011, 21:54

There seems to be a Cambridge CELTA course in Belgium, have a look at the Cambridge site for details.
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Re: Diploma in Tesol (LTTC) vs Certificate in Tesol (Intesol

Unread postby Chalamar » 07 Apr 2011, 10:17

There is one indeed! Delivering an onsite CELTA course just 10 min away from my home!! It is not cheap (Eur 1650) but seems worth it. Thanks a million for your kind help!
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