Suzhou Foreign Language School, Suzhou, China

[Diana2010]

Hello, I am Diana and I worked for Suzhou Foreign Language School in Suzhou, China, for only 10 weeks last year. ***** is an American manager at that school.

Please consider the following if you ever plan to work for that school:

He so abused me, however, that after I left I actually suffered an almost nervous breakdown.

Within ONE week of being in that school, he started sending me email ONLY ON THE WEEKEND, usually late at night, telling me that I was a horrible teacher, that I was an idiot, that I did not know what I was doing. I cried, really cried. When that didn't work, he would send his little click of old, bitter, divorced ladies (three of the them) to my class and they would criticize me and criticize me. Then, after he spent the night with his boyfriend, who is a leader in the school, the boyfriend would appear "suddenly out of nowhere" to monitor my class.

He screamed and screamed and screamed at me on so many occasions, in public and in private. I saw him throw desks, I actually saw him do this, at little children. I actually saw him fling books at little children. I saw him pick children up and toss them about. The school would do nothing. The complaints were always blocked by his boyfriend, who is a married Chinese man.

Now, as for him, morally. First, he actually "plays" with some of the high school boys from the school. The schools knows it. He alludes to it. They stay overnight at his house sometimes on the weekend. Next, there was a big scandal in the school that was quickly hushed in the school because of him and his "rent boys", if you know what that is. They buried that one very quickly.

They are having a rough time recruiting teachers this year and that is because of everything that has been written.

I truly do not care about people's private lives but I do care that this person as a teacher should not be playing with his students, even if he is involved "intimately" with the senior management

Note that personal name(s) have been removed. Admin

[Peter Easton]

Why is Suzhou such a magnet for western wastrels, losers and criminals?


It's backpacker central, that's why....

[TheTruth]

This school is all over the Internet again this year. There have been many postings about it, the majority of which have been less than glowing to speak politely.

Because of the tremendous volume of negative posts that the school has received on the Internet, and given the late date in the hiring cycle, one can only conclude that the school may be having trouble reaching its hiring quota. Given what I have read all over the Internet, that is not surprising at all.

When one poster writes something bad, that can be taken as a grudge, or as an act of vindictiveness, etc., etc. Nonetheless, I have personally counted at least 30-35 complaints about the school, the majority of which have been quite recent.

Thus, I would probably consider this school an avoid.

[VocalRush]

Because of the tremendous volume of negative posts that the school has received on the Internet, and given the late date in the hiring cycle, one can only conclude that the school may be having trouble reaching its hiring quota. Given what I have read all over the Internet, that is not surprising at all.

"One" can conclude all "one" wants but spreading malicious gossip about a school "one" once briefly worked for (What was it, about 10 weeks, if that, more than two years ago? Hold a grudge much?) all over the internet (under a melange of names) is a bit juvenile . . . in my opinion mind you. I was just at the welcome meeting yesterday and 33 out of the 34 hired foreign teachers were all present and accounted for. The remaining one (but not the "one") is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. So, concluding is much like assuming and assuming is not fact only mere speculation.

[TheTruth]

Because of the tremendous volume of negative posts that the school has received on the Internet, and given the late date in the hiring cycle, one can only conclude that the school may be having trouble reaching its hiring quota. Given what I have read all over the Internet, that is not surprising at all.

"One" can conclude all "one" wants but spreading malicious gossip about a school "one" once briefly worked for (What was it, about 10 weeks, if that, more than two years ago? Hold a grudge much?) all over the internet (under a melange of names) is a bit juvenile . . . in my opinion mind you. I was just at the welcome meeting yesterday and 33 out of the 34 hired foreign teachers were all present and accounted for. The remaining one (but not the "one") is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. So, concluding is much like assuming and assuming is not fact only mere speculation.

This new poster above has made one appearance just to parrot what appears to be the official line of the school. In such cases, as mentioned before by numerous other posters on many ESL forums on the Internet, teachers new to China and teachers consulting these boards should always view such posts with a great deal of trepidation and frankly scepticism. It is the duty of the paid political poster after all to put out fires and to say wonderfully elogious things about the school in question. Thus, either this poster is part of management at the school or the person is a recruiter / agent for the school, in which case the recruiter / agent needs to "undirty" the school or "to wash its dirty laundry with strong bleach" in order to recruit candidates (some might say victims) for the school.

I personally have no axe to grind with this institution, one way or the other. I do, however, consider myself to be a literate, cogitative human being and when I read probably 100 - 150 negative posts about one institution in China, from many different posters, residing in nearly all of the English-speaking countries on the face of the earth, than I become extremely concerned that this is not a fit place in which to be employed.

As a follow-up, I have done my due diligence and I have contacted those persons whom it has been suggested to me are past employees of the school and whom have available email addresses. Many have responded in private confirming my exceptionally very worst fears about the institution.

Additionally, as the above poster has raised issues as to the veracity of these negative comments, I have just spoken by Skype with no less 5 of these previous employees on a Skype conference call and all concurred. The school, in their opinion, is an avoid.

They additionally made these points for me which I would like to share with the members of the Board:

1. The kindergarten is at least alright. Most foreign teachers who are in the employ of the kindergarten finish their contracts with no problems.

2. The general ESL high school and elementary school classes are at least palatable, with a teacher retention of 50%. Not great, but considering the school, not bad either.

3. The GAC / Special Development programs are to be avoided. Turnover is extremely, extremely high. Management can be heavily abusive.

4. Finally, the International Classes are to be avoided, not for the children who are iban-iban as the Chinese say, but for certain of the management, the details of which I have been asked not to divulge pubicly. As one prevous employee said, "this is Dr. Freud territory". Three used the word "schizophrenic" but I am not at liberty to say in which context.

As one of the previous employees said : "there are many wonderful schools in Suzhou, not just this one however".

On a scale of 0 - 10, (0 being the worst, 10 being the best), this is a "1.5".

[VocalRush]

So what you are saying, "TheTruth", is that you have NEVER been to this school, NEVER walked the grounds, NEVER observed even one teacher or one lesson, NEVER applied for a job at this school (and, thus, never was accepted or declined by the school), perhaps NEVER even seen this school whilst driving by and yet you know so, so, very, very much about this school? You know of all the various programs and personnel and current and former teachers and the many, many, many former teachers who absolutely ABHOR this school have your ear? Do I just about have this correct? Then certainly you must be WELL KNOWN amongst the Chinese EFL and expat community. Tell us won't you, "TheTruth" what are your credentials to be able to make such sound judgements against this or any school? Why should anyone, ANYONE take your anonymous internet word about this or any school? Why do you hide behind anonymous internet names (male or female) and how do all these many, many, many ex-teachers of this school know you or how to contact you to relate their absolutely horrible, horrible experiences at this school? Why do you seemingly sit around talking about this school all day and follow all the many posts about it? Why do you just assume only the negative posts are truthful and the positive posts are from liars or paid advertisers of the school? Will you not concede that, just like any employing business, that some employees (either past or current) are or were simply HAPPY with their job?

You sir, (or madam, depending on the day) should be aSHAMed of yourself for spreading such wrongful messages about a school that you PERSONALLY know nothing about. By your claims, ALL you know is what other people are (allegedly) telling you and then somehow, somehow it has been your job to create a personal crusade against this school. Now, if you had been a former employee of this school, you'd have a (somewhat) less shaky leg to stand on. At least, for better or worse, you could relate your own personal experiences.

Well, as a TRUE teacher of this school, I am here to tell you that what you say is totally, totally untrue and fabricated. One of the persons you tend to smear (or, as you say, OTHERS tend to smear) is nothing of the sort. And that so-called Skype conference call you converged was quite speedy considering your rebuttal to MY rebuttal came so quickly afterward. Good thing all those sad, sad ex-teachers were sitting around on their computers waiting for your call. I say thee, HA-HA! and a big L-O-L!!!!!

Those reading this thread and are not rolling their eyes too much can either take the assertions of one who has never worked at this school and his (or her) rumor-mongering, or can take the word of one who currently works there and has done so for a while now.

PS: BTW, you are woefully out-of-date on your assertions about so-called management in some of the departments. Better contact one of your in-school spies to get the full skinny on that!

PPS: 20 out of last year's 28 contracted teachers returned this year (me being one of them). With the ever-growing, ever-expanding student body count, the school has hired 14 new teachers for this term. I've met them. So far they seem like a good lot. Not bad, considering your "statistics" don't quite reflect this.

[TheTruth]

Concerning the previous post :

Posts by management, by they local Chinese management or hired and imported foreign quislings, should be taken with every caution.

Previous employees of the school who have read the previous post have every reason to believe that this post emanates from an American-born foreign manager of one section of the school.

Management postings tend to err on the side of propaganda and bolderdash. Any foreign teacher considering any school, and this school in particular, should, after a while, be able to discern management postings from simple, common-folk foreign teacher postings.

To wit :

Consider, if you will, the threads about this school on Raoul's China Saloon.

Consider, if you will, the threads about this school on http://www.eslteachersboard.com which, I believe, has a permanent ban on accepting retorts that it believes are from the management of this school.

Consider, if you will, the numerous post on many other Internet sites, most of which contain valid email addresses for further contact.

All-in-all, at least 50 if not more teachers in China have offered their opinions on this school, on the management, and in some cases, on one manager in particular. Some of these opinions are favorable; at least 96% are not.

Where there is smoke, there is a fire. Where there is a lot of smoke, there is a forest fire.

I would encourage any individual considering this school to read as much on the Internet about it as he or she can. Should the individual be seriously considering an offer of employment, the prospective teacher should obtain the verifiable email addresses of at least four previous teachers.

[VocalRush]

All-in-all, at least 50 if not more teachers in China have offered their opinions on this school, on the management, and in some cases, on one manager in particular. Some of these opinions are favorable; at least 96% are not.

Once again, "TheTruth" - - how do YOU know these things? Why are you so keen on slamming this school amongst the many thousands upon thousands of schools across China? What has interested you so much about Suzhou Foreign Language School that you know of so many other websites that have threads concerning this school?

You just said two postings back:

I personally have no axe to grind with this institution, one way or the other.

Yet you follow the various threads around the internet concerning this school. You post your own highly inflammatory, highly slanderous postings against this school and its employees. You form opinions based on postings that seem to be remarkably worded like your own (HA!). Again, why do you care so much? Are you a self-appointed ESL watchdog in China? Have you ever taught in a school in China? Are you currently even in China?

Previous employees of the school who have read the previous post have every reason to believe that this post emanates from an American-born foreign manager of one section of the school.

Really? Which former employees? Are you their current spokesman (or "woman")? And, if so, why is that? How and why do they contact you with their alleged complaints, suspicions, warnings and various other lamentations? To which American-born foreign manager are you referring? But, really, how would you even know as you've never, at least your postings here indicate this, worked for nor set foot upon this school's grounds? How CONVENIENT that you can say this person or that is contacting you and refuting my posts or other postings by other former or current employees. You have somewhat painted yourself into a corner and you can't honestly reveal yourself as someone that has, indeed, actually BRIEFLY worked for this school and now (and for more than two years) has a HUGE chip on his shoulder against this school.

I've seen such internet pseudonyms such as "Diana", and "C. Worthington", and "Stephanie" (amongst several others) posting against this school that I would SWEAR are one and the same person and "they" have a HUGELY similar writing style and tone as you. HUGELY!

So, again, to all others that are not "Diana", "C. Worthington", "Stephanie", or "TheTruth": SFLS currently employs 34 foreign teachers for a student body count of over 3000. Obviously there are MANY Chinese teachers there as well. To be sure, of the current 34, there may be some that leave the school before their contract ends due to some displeasure or hurt feelings or something. To be sure, some will not renew their contract due to the fact they find a better job offer next year or want to return to their home country. However, 20 out of 28 teachers from last school term did renew and did return. That says something about this school. I don't paint SFLS as a pristine, can-do-no-wrong school, but it's seemingly better than many I've read about from this and other ESL sites (although I do read these complaints - - and praises - - and take them with a grain of salt). And luckily, SFLS no longer allows dead weight staff (Chinese or foreign) to stay year after year, sucking them dry with little to return, as it should be. Don't you agree, "TheTruth"? *wink!*

Consider, if you will, the threads about this school on http://www.eslteachersboard.com which, I believe, has a permanent ban on accepting retorts that it believes are from the management of this school.

Well,there you go. Enough said about that particular website!

[TheTruth]

I would encourage all posters to carefully read the long thread about this school on

http://www.raoulschinasaloon.com (Suzhou Foreign Language School -- particularly the last four pages of the thread).

In reading this thread, one may note the intervention of Dr. P. Turnoi, one of the well-respected intervenionists and proprietors of www.eslteachersboard.com and Raoul Duke, owner of the site.

The details are florid, almost rancid and the highly personal descriptions of some of the managers provide information which I would blush about posting myself.

Please do not take my word, dear readers, for anything. Please do read what others have written on long-established and well-reputed websites.

http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=326.0

Additionally, I would encourage all to read the following post, signed by the author himself, a well-known and well-respected proprietor of a TESL forum. A serious forum, generally not political I might and a person who generally does remain above the fray.

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/review/index.pl?read=25663

[TheTruth]

The last post is a little bit incoherent, to speak politely. This is a BBS here, at least as it appears to many, and decidedly not an off-track betting establishment. We don't take bets here and surely not with total strangers.

As I said before, previous employees were kind enough to furnish me with the links that have been posted, particularly the two from Dr. Turnoi and Raoul Duke. They both address the issue at hand in very intelligent, concise, and relatively impartial terms.

Prospective employees would do well to read them carefully. Caveat emptor, as one may say.

[fischer]

So Diana or C. Worthington or whatever you say your name is, you mentioned, "I saw him throw desks, I actually saw him do this, at little children. I actually saw him fling books at little children. I saw him pick children up and toss them about."

I'm no genius here, but I would think, as would anyone, that if you were really an eye witness to all of this like you say you were, you would want to mention what happened to the children in these incidents. Like whether or not the desks and books hit the children, or whether the children were hurt after being tossed about. I think that would be worth mentioning if you want your stories to sound realistic, otherwise it just sounds like you're taking cheap shots at this guy you're talking about. I mean the first question that came to mind when I read your post was "did anyone get hurt?" The way you gloss over those important details makes your story seem very artificial, like, "And this one time, I got run over by a car. And then, but, like, this dinosaur saved my life..." What a cliffhanger. Obviously a story like that wouldn't be true, because, like your story, it doesn't give us the usual realistic details that real stories include or any solid evidence that would make us think it was anything but a far-fetched story.

Good try. Maybe if you just tell the truth it would be better, like, "Well, I was teaching 1st grade at SFLS, it was so, so, so easy that I didn't really take it seriously. Anyway I like the bar scene in Suzhou, umm, a lot, and that really took away from my teaching, and I got fired after 10 weeks. And I'm still pretty upset about that, because I can't quite bring myself to place the blame for what happened where it belongs -- on myself and my foolish choices.

Readers, beware. This gentleman is posting like a madman on tons of ESL boards, trying to bring down the school that fired him. Take him and his wild stories with a grain of salt.

[TheTruth]

Concerning the posts by VocalRush and Fischer, which appear to be in reality Kev7161 aka Jake of http://www.eslteachersboard.com, I picked up this post on another site. It struck me as an interesting, well-constructed post so I thought I might insert here. Again, I can take no claim for anything that is written in the bracked post as it is not mine.

"The question is not whether I was fired from Kevin's school for drinking (which is so outrageous considering I never, ever, ever, ever, ever drink) but whether or not the complaints against Kevin and his school are accurately set forth -- and indeed they are.

So in the end, let us ask this Kevin creature / aka Jake the Fake / Kevin the Bevn / the Boy 250 kilo wonder, some serious questions. Dear Dr. Turnoi, please help me with additional questions if you can.

Questions for Jake the Fake / aka Kevin the Bevin.

1. How many times have you heaved desks in anger at unsuspecting foreign teachers?

2. How many times have you thrown books in anger at unsuspecting foreign teachers?

3. How many foreign teachers have you verbally abused over the course of your tenure at your school?

4. How many teachers have you fired / terminated/ thrown out the door, even physically, for any number of reasons?

5. Can you please deny that you ever worked as a delivery boy at Pizza Hut and then somehow morphed into a DOS / manager at your school in China?

6. How many times have you been fired from summer camps in China?

7. Have you ever belonged to any Yahoo groups, the membership of which might be deemed incompatible with one's status as a teacher of little children?

8. Would you benefit from a course in anger control management?

9. Why is the turnover rate of foreign teachers in your school 10 times the normal?

10. Why do you post all over the Internet under false names and then accuse others of doing that very thing?

11. There have been claims on the Internet that you may have physically assaulted a foreign teacher in a fit of anger. Can you comment on this?

Thank you very much and I can only hope that you take the time to provide honest, detailed answers.

C. Worthington"

[VocalRush]

I went to this teacher to whom you seem to have a serious and quite possibly unhealthy addiction towards and he just laughed and shrugged when I showed him this thread. His reply was (essentially): "Whatcha gonna do? A**x is an internet thug who left this school under a dark and ugly cloud and he's spent over two years obsessing over me and this school. He worked here 10 whole weeks (if you want to call it "work") and got his ass fired for his histrionics and gross lack of professionalism and since then, he's been here, there and everywhere on the internet building one house of cards after another. From what I hear, he's been fired from a dozen jobs or more from all over China, but he still keeps plugging away. Good for him. Good. For. Him." (okay, maybe I paraphrased a bit, but that is basically what he had to say!) LOL!!!

By the way, I'm not Jake but congrats to Jake for saying his piece whilst surrounded by a gang of internet bullies. I'm not "kev7161" either, but you keep believing what you will A**x and go on with your delusions. This is what they do over on that eslteachersboard site he's so fond of. Anyone that comes on in defense of SFLS (or kev7161) is, apparently, all one and the same. All 20 or so of 'em! LOL! Time for your meds, cupcake! LOL!

PS: I have to agree with "Fischer" (whom I'm also not! LOL!) - - exactly how many children and teachers were injured by these flying desks and books? I've seen the textbooks, they're fairly heavy suckers. If I was hit by one of these, I daresay I'd suffer a concussion! LOL! You notice, that "The Truth" and "C. Worthington" and "Suzhou Teacher Also" never answer questions asked of him, rather keeps regurgitating the same old crap post after post. A little more flourish and polish on them of course, but a big pile of steamy crap is always going to be a big pile of steamy crap, regardless of how much parsley you add to it! LOL!!!

[VocalRush]

I'm sorry, I just had to add:

"Kevin the Bevin"? "Jake the Fake"? "250 kg" ?(which of course is over 600 pounds!) - - what are you - - - 12 years old? LOL!

[TheTruth]

Our readers will note that neither VocalRush aka Kev7161 or his other multiple personalities did not answer even one of the questions that were asked of him. In his silence we find his guilt.

[VocalRush]

Edit: Over 500 pounds!

[VocalRush]

Except you are ASSuming that "Jake" and "kev7161" and "VocalRush" (me) are one and the same, which is a grossly false ASSumption. And you know what ASSuming does (leaning more towards YOU than me of course! LOL!)!!!! I don't think "kev7161" even gives a rat's ASS about your inane questions or even of this thread altogether so your crazy questions are thus pretty much moot.

[TheTruth]

Except you are ASSuming that "Jake" and "kev7161" and "VocalRush" (me) are one and the same, which is a grossly false ASSumption. And you know what ASSuming does (leaning more towards YOU than me of course! LOL!)!!!! I don't think "kev7161" even gives a rat's ASS about your inane questions or even of this thread altogether so your crazy questions are thus pretty much moot.

In any case, all will note that the basic questions asked of Kev7161, Jake the Fake, a Kevin alias, and VocalRush, a second Kevin alias, remain unanswered by the Mr. Kevin, Mr. Jake the Fake and Mr. Vocal Rush, a trinity in one person. As Dr. Turnoi has recently written on another site, there is perhaps one question and one question alone that needs to be posed of this person, and to all those whom have had the misfortune to meet this person and to be in his employ, the question is obvious. I refer all to Dr. Turnoi's recent post on this subject on www.eslteachersboard.com.

And sorry, my good man, speaking euphemistically of course, the questions are not crazy but speak to the essence of depravity of this person.

[Meinicio]

I think that people logging into this site might be interested in what the school is like now. So, lets put this past behind us, reflect on the fact that the person posting negative comments worked at the school, for a short time and has an axe to grind against what are now past administrators. My name is Mike Edwards, I am the co-author of a range of education resources, I have over twenty year experience teaching across a range of education areas in the UK, I now work in the overseas department of the Suzhou Foreign Language School teaching oral English to grades 3-4. to find out more about me, google mike edwards tutors.
Suzhou Foreign Language School is an excellent school and is renowned in this part of China for its excellent teaching standards. Since first being introduced to the school I have been impressed with the professionalism of the teaching support staff in the international department. They helped me arrange medicals and visas, thay provide a decent standard of accommodation and food in addition to the salary I am paid.
The overseas school is a happy school with small class sizes, the teaching staff are caring of their students and have supported me in the transition period of understanding the school system and the resources that they want me to use, they also accept my introduction of additional resources into the classroom.
As far as Suzhou is concerned it is a moder city with a vibrant night life alongside traditional historic buildings, with high speed links to Shanghai, Beijing, etc those people wishing to work in and explore China.
If anyone is considering applying for a position here I would recommend it, there is an excellent group of foreign teachers from a diverse range of countries, some of us, even the over 50s, like to party and you will be made to feel welcome.
If anyone wishes to question my identity or credentials they are free to do so, I am easy to find, I have nothing to hide.

[TheTruth]

The above post is a paid political announcement from a new teacher, apparently, at the school, who has been at the school for less than several weeks.

I have learned by reading another site, www.eslteachersboard.com, and a posting by a Dr. K. V. Helmsleigh, that apparently the infamous Kevin H., and all 200 kilos of him, organized a meeting with administration to launch a spam / propaganda campaign to try to wipe out the highly malodorous stench that Kevin H. has created by his behaviour.

I note that there appeared a posting on that site this morning by Mr. Raoul Duke, whom Kevin H. has trashed on another board, and who personally knows the Kevin H., confirming and underlining nearly everything desultory that has been written about the school in general and about Kevin in particular.

Now, I can only ask you -- can so, so, so, so many ex-teachers be wrong? Can so, so many inhabitants of Suzhou who know the place and who know the monster be wrong? That, Dr. Watson, is the question. The answer is self-evident. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Where there is fat, there is blubber.