Certificate not necessary

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Certificate not necessary

Unread postby SMRT » 22 Jun 2004, 13:34

Save your money! A piece of paper is not necessary to guarantee you a job in the world of TEFL. Some institutes tell you that because they want to make money. Some teachers tell you that because they were taken in by all the hype that you need one. Let me tell you the truth: You don't need a TEFL certificate. Nope, you don't need one at all.

If you don't a piece of paper, what do you need? Well, for a start, you should be able to communicate well in English; you should have an interesting personality; you should be creative and energetic; you should be willing to learn and to experiment; you should be able to deal with different types of people; you should be motivated and dedicated, and much more...

Just because you have a piece of paper does not qualify you to be a teacher of English as a Foreign Language. There are many "would be" teachers out there with certificates who know nothing about teaching (nor the English language).

And by the way, did you know that none of these certificates are accredited??? Don't let any institute tell you otherwise. Such institutes are businesses. They want to make lots of money. They want your money!!! Why pay so much money for a four week course and a piece of paper???

Come on!!! Wake up!!!! Don't believe all the propaganda!!! Save your money and go out and teach and earn instead!!!
SMRT
 

TEFL worth it

Unread postby marko » 30 Jun 2004, 12:53

I have to disagree with you on that one.

The majority of people who try to teach without a certificate will fail. The piece of paper you get is not why you go to a TEFL course. You go there to get trained and you go there to make contacts. For the price you pay it is very much worth it. Everyone I know here in Germany has a TEFL and the ones who kind of just dropped in to wing it, never got anywhere. Telling people not to get a TEFL is not good advice at all and 95 percent of them will be going home in a month with a the training
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Oh, come on!!!

Unread postby SMRT » 02 Jul 2004, 13:07

Many Americans and British people teach in Germany without a TEFL certificate. Take inlingua, for example, the McLanguage school. You don't need a TEFL certificate there. They don't even recognise it since they train you on the job. Another language school, Berlitz, does the same. Most of the VHS schools in Germany do not really give a toss about the TEFL certificate. As long as you are a native speaker and have some experience, you can get a job there. The same applies to many of the smaller private schools, too.

The whole idea about the TEFL certificate course is money. It is not even an academic qualification. You don't even need a university degree to get on a TEFL course.

None of these TEFL certificates are accredited and not many schools give a damn. Why? Because TEFL is a badly paid job in Europe. Most of them are desperate to get native speakers. They usually hire rich American backpackers for pocket money ( many of which have a TEFL certificate).
SMRT
 

Unread postby roma » 12 Jul 2004, 10:46

That might be true that it is possible to get a job without training from Berlitz, but not everyone will get a job there. Do they have jobs for every single English teacher? I really don't think so. Besides, Berlitz is one of the lowest paying schools in the world. Also, Berlitz teachers do not even really teach. All they do is follow set instructions for each lesson that they are given beforehand

I think its great that you know a handfull of people that have got jobs without training. I do hiring for a school and every single teacher I have ever hired had some kind of training (Usually a TEFL cert). I would not think of hiring anyone who just rolled up and wanted a job. Sure, if they had a couple of years teaching and could answer questions about TEFL methodology, that would be a different story. However, if the majority of schools feel the same way I do, how then SMRT are they going to find a job in the first place? I agree with Marko, your giving bad advice to people interested in teaching.

When I hire teachers I ask them to tell me about

Task based learning

TTT/STT

ESA

PPP

error correction

Miming

CCQ's

I think its safe to say that all TEFL schools cover this type of material.

I also ask them to do a 45 min practice lesson that I observe.

If they cannot answer these questions, they can forget about getting a job at our school.

And, someone who had never stood up in class before would probably bomb the demo lesson as well

Sure, some people might find jobs without training or support from a TEFL center, but what about the ones who do not?

This is in no way an attack on you, but you are misleading people and you are not in the place to give such advice.

All schools feel the same way I do. The TEFL cert. will not make you a pro, but its a start. There is no school in the world that would hire an untrained teacher over someone who took a month long intensive training course. (granted that all other qualities of the applicant are equal) The question I have for you is why you are so against TEFL courses?
roma
 

The Great TEFL Swindle

Unread postby SMRT » 15 Jul 2004, 13:29

Well dude, you are free to hire teachers who have TEFL certificates. But you just confirmed my argument by getting them to do a demo lesson and I'm sure you have had teachers with a TEFL certificate who were absolutely sh!t in class, and I've seen many of them. As for your interview with all the TEFL terminology, even a non-certified teacher could probably get through that even s/he does her/his homework. Even you realise that just a piece of paper is not enough, otherwise you wouldn't ask all those questions and demand a demo lesson. I have seen teachers without a TEFL certificate teach better than some teachers who do (especially those teachers who were trained on the job). Years ago you didn't even need a TEFL certificate to teach English as a Foreign Language. All you needed was an Arts degree, preferably in English or a modern language. Nowadays, most of these TEFL certified teachers don't even have a degree. Why do you need all these certificates now. I will tell you why: profit! People make lots of money with TEFL certificate courses. That's all! The truth is: you don't really need it! If you think I am spreading false information then I am not the only one. Even this website states that having a TEFL certificate is not a must.
SMRT
 

TESOL Certs

Unread postby Steve » 11 Aug 2004, 09:39

Claiming that a TEFL certificate is not important does the field an injustice. It is also simply wrong advice for many parts of the world.

For example, in Bangkok where I work, you cannot get a work permit without a certificate. In other words, you cannot work legally without it.
Secondly, getting a certificate is a statement of intent. It says to any employer that you take the job of teaching seriously enough to actually make an investment in your personal development.
My experience is that a certificate certainly does not a good teacher make. However, anyone with any potential as a teacher will more quickly realise that potential through doing a certificate (and continuing to reflect on their teaching afterwards).

Please don't fight the professionalisation of the field. Certificates are not the be all and end all, but they have their place.

Steve
Steve
 

Wipe it with a cert

Unread postby SMRT » 17 Aug 2004, 12:56

In Bangkok a university degree is enough to ensure your work permit. OK, if you don't have a university degree they might just accept a certificate. But even you admit that the certificate is not the be and end all. If it is just a matter of getting a piece of paper to demonstrate your serious intention, then save your money and buy yourself a life experience degree or even better make your own desktop publishing TEFL degree. And why not? "It says to any employer that you take the job of teaching seriously enough to actually make an investment in your personal development. " None of them are worth the paper they are printed on anyway. Why pay a lot of dosh for a four week course and a piece of paper. You can read all that info for free online. You can then gain experience at a language school and get good references.
SMRT
 

wipe it with a cert

Unread postby Nigel » 09 Oct 2004, 15:21

What are you lot talking about?

Course you CAN'T teach without the cert

Why are you bothering arguin about it?
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Unread postby Jon Cold » 09 Oct 2004, 22:17

Smrt,

Your comments don't stand against reason. Most schools require a CERT or pay more if the applicant has them. I think you seriously need to consider the things you say.

1. Schools (except those in hotspots like south korea are not going to hire applicants from abroad.

So.....your saying that the best thing to do is get on a plane and move to germany with the hope of getting a job.

I don't know, staying in a hostel? Hotel?

Please.... Most of the thousands of people who listened to your rant would be there and back home within 4 four weeks without a job.

If they did get a job, it would be a nightmare for many of them and a diservice to their students who are paying a lot of cash.
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Wipe it with a cert!

Unread postby SMRT » 11 Oct 2004, 19:07

Well, most schools don't really give a damn if you have a TEFL cert. Why? Because they are more interested in whether you can teach or not. Do you think that just a four week course and a piece of paper equips you for the real world of TEFL out there? I don't think so. All these TEFL cert, dip, MA, etc are just business schemes to make some clever people a lot of money. Unfortunately, it ain't the TEFL teachers who are laughing their way to the bank.

Anyway, most teachers I have met in Germany haven't even got a TEFL certificate or any teaching qualifications for that matter. They are usually rich American kids backpacking or bored housewives. In Austria it's similar. Whether you have a Mickey Mouse Certificate or not, you earn the same amount of dosh.

Yeah Jon, any native speaker with an art degree can get a TEFL job. In Germany, for example, you have more advantages if you have a business related degree.

The many "so called" TEFL qualifications do not guarantee a job. This is all marketing and advertising hype to get gullible kids to waste money on a four week course.
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Unread postby Guest » 17 Apr 2005, 22:41

:lol: I like SMRT's arguments...cos it's the argument that tells me that I don't have to spend £800 for a certificate. I've been looking at TEFL courses and they're too damn expensive. I've got a shitty degree...I'm off to Japan. Nice one. :lol:
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Unread postby Doctor » 04 Oct 2005, 17:29

SMRT is giving personal opinions and unsound advice. 10,15, 20+ years ago, a native English speaker could arrive in a country and teach simply due to the fact that they were a "native English speaker". Today, most schools have experiences with these "backpack teachers" and their lack of professionalism, lack of knowledge of L2 acquisitional theories, and their "midnight runs" out of the country immediately after being paid. Most schools want: a native English speaker, some kind of specialized training in ESL (i.e a certificate), a University degree, and some teaching experience...if some of these needs are not met, then the school has to sacrifice some kind of qualification. SMRT, what qualification do you think the school will sacrifice... the native speaker (no), the ESL Cert. (no), the University Degree (in China and Latin America, most likely), or the experience (schools are likely to hire a newbie with a TESL Cert. rather than a newbie without.) Not to mention the fact that most teachers without certification get lower salaries and work for shadier schools.
My advice...get the certification so that you have a basis from which to start and a sound foundation to instil confidence in your students, your administration, and yourself.
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Doctor the Cert dealer

Unread postby SMRT » 07 Oct 2005, 16:16

Doc is just giving his opinion and not sound advice. A TEFL cert. course lasts four weeks and costs an arm and a leg. Furthermore it is not accredited. Don't listen to these dealers who tell you that you will earn less without it! This is not always true! Many schools do not give a toot if you have a certificate or not and will offer you the same pay. Many schools do not recognise many of these certs anyway.

4 wk TEFL training courses are big business and too many gulliable people fall for them. If you worry about qualifications then go to college or university and get a proper teaching qualification rather than a Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck certificate.
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Unread postby Doctor » 11 Oct 2005, 18:47

SMRT: I suggest you research your answers more carefully. An intensive four week TESL Certification course is as inexpensive as you will find in the industry. I know that the course I took was less than $1000.00 CDN. So they do not cost "an arm and a leg".
There is no international accrediting body for TESL, so SMRT's other argument is moot.
If one was to get a "proper" teaching credential like a BEd, or an MEd. then one wouldn't have to teach overseas, they could teach in their home country.
Experience, creativity, and adaptability are the most important characteristics that any successful TESL instructor must have.
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Unread postby SMRT » 19 Oct 2006, 09:22

"If one was to get a "proper" teaching credential like a BEd, or an MEd. then one wouldn't have to teach overseas, they could teach in their home country."

Now we see that Doctor seems to be implying that all the academic losers end up going abroad to teach lol. Quite ironic!

I fnd it amusing that those who have been taken in by this TEFL Mickey Mouse certificate courses do anything to justify themselves.

For a rich kid the courses are not expensive, I agree. But you would think that a rich kid would be able to afford at least a basic university or college education lol.
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Unread postby Niall » 23 Jun 2007, 14:09

Cambridge University (CELTA) and Trinity College London (TESOL) may not constitute a chartered professional body, but they are accredited bodies of higher education, so there is such a thing as an accredited certificate.

Yes, there are unaccredited ones too. That's why you do your research first.

I wouldn't want to work as a teacher without some prep work -- and how am I supposed to learn to teach without doing a CELTA?

So, £900 isn't cheap, but it's definitely not expensive.
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Unread postby SMRT » 24 Jun 2007, 06:59

[quote="Niall"]Cambridge University (CELTA) and Trinity College London (TESOL) may not constitute a chartered professional body, but they are accredited bodies of higher education, so there [i]is[/i] such a thing as an accredited certificate.

Yes, there are unaccredited ones too. That's why you do your research first.

I wouldn't want to work as a teacher without some prep work -- and how am I supposed to learn to teach without doing a CELTA?

So, £900 isn't cheap, but it's definitely not expensive.[/quote]

Good point, but outside the UK where you will be teaching your certificate is probably NOT accredited and may not be even recognised. Private language schools tend to be factories which do not really care if their employees have a piece of paper as long as they know more or less what they are doing.

I assume you can read and write. If you do not want to get a proper teaching qualification (like some of the people who posted earlier), then you can borrow books on the subject (or read online), study them and learn on the job and visit some workshops which almost cost nothing. Some professional languages schools have mentors these days and they act as your tutor on the job.
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Unread postby Niall » 24 Jun 2007, 11:25

Then why do so many job ads say BEd, Celta or TESOL (Trinity) required?
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Unread postby SMRT » 24 Jun 2007, 12:27

[quote="Niall"]Then why do so many job ads say [i]BEd, Celta or TESOL (Trinity) required[/i]?[/quote]

Many job ads say so due to formality rather than the assumed weight of such qualifications. As you probably well know, there are accredited and non-accredited language schools. However, the only distinction between them is largely the price accredited schools pay for being so. All the rest: administration work, lesson observations, etc. is just a well rehearsed show.

Of course, the BEd you have mentioned has weight in contrast to paying 900 pounds, doing a four week course and getting a certificate.

Many clients believe that their teacher is qualified to university level lol. If only they knew the truth that their teacher probably has not even got a school leaving certificate, let alone a university qualification. Instead, their teacher paid 900 quid for a certificate which is probably not even accredited.

The sad truth is that one does not even need any decent qualifications to teach EFL, even a school leaver can go abroad and teach English. I even met an 18 year old in Slovakia who was teaching EFL lol.
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Unread postby Niall » 24 Jun 2007, 13:41

SMRT wrote:Many job ads say so due to formality rather than the assumed weight of such qualifications. As you probably well know, there are accredited and non-accredited language schools. However, the only distinction between them is largely the price accredited schools pay for being so. All the rest: administration work, lesson observations, etc. is just a well rehearsed show.

Not true. The accredited schools are monitored by Cambridge or Trinity. The unaccredited schools cannot award a Cambridge or a Trinity award, which are the only ones that really count anywhere.
Many clients believe that their teacher is qualified to university level lol. If only they knew the truth that their teacher probably has not even got a school leaving certificate, let alone a university qualification.
Sorry, I should have said that most places ask for first degree plus teaching certificate.
Instead, their teacher paid 900 quid for a certificate which is probably not even accredited.
There is a clear difference between Cambridge certificates, Trinity certificates and unaccredited certificates. I wouldn't want to work for a school that was so unprofessional that they couldn't tell the difference.

The sad truth is that one does not even need any decent qualifications to teach EFL, even a school leaver can go abroad and teach English. I even met an 18 year old in Slovakia who was teaching EFL lol.

Similarly, one does not need any decent qualifications to be a childminder, but I wouldn't leave my children with a nursery that didn't ensure that their staff had appropriate qualifications.

There are cr@p schools out there -- we know. We also know that they're as sh!tty to their staff as they are to their students. We don't want to work there. We get qualified and get decent jobs.
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