Comments on: The British government learns what any TEFLer could have told them

By: Sandy

Sandy — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:21:37 +0000

Stick at it, Alex. You know it makes sense! ToEFL and all its variants has ALWAYS been a crap indicator of English language ability, whereas IELTS and the Cambridge exams have always been streets ahead. Not perfect, mind you, but in no way as flawed as the dogshite tests that ToEFL churn out!

By: Lisa

Lisa — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:01:01 +0000

TOEIC Speaking and Writing was introduced back in Dec 2006. It’s just now coming to the UK. It was originally put out in the test’s largest market, Japan and Korea, then expanded to the USA and now the UK.

By: Alex Case

Alex Case — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 07:05:13 +0000

Here are some links I came across while trying to find something positive about ETS:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/16/ets_exams_online_marking/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/jul/18/schools.uk1

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/education/entries/2008/07/18/ets_test_scorin.html

http://www.urch.com/forums/graduate-admissions/35298-ets-woes.html

http://media.www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2007/04/04/Opinion/Gre-Changes-2822622.shtml

http://www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2618073&path=/Opinion/&threadPage=&messagePage=1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2006/oct/20/tefl2

http://www.urch.com/forums/lounge/3889-new-forum-just-ets-problems.html

And in response to the idea that bloggers are negative, here is something positive:

IELTS is a very good test indeed

By: Alex Case

Alex Case — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:45:53 +0000

Let’s start with an absolute irrefutable basic- the name. It’s the Test of English for International COMMUNICATION. And because it was supposed to be communicative is why it was taken on by the Japanese as a way of creating business men who could communicate, i.e. write and speak, in English. But the students do not communicate in the exam, and it remains a barrier to spending sufficient time doing those things in TOEIC classes, i.e. it has had precisely the opposite effect. All the rumours about the updated TOEIC exam is that it was a response to precisely that result- that there are people with good English with bad TOEIC scores and people with good TOEIC scores who can’t communicate. That is why they introduced an obligatory speaking test for every student.

…only joking (that’s IELTS, FCE etc), they just put in some longer listenings and a couple of Australian accents!

I don’t know what your connection to ETS is Mr Bottoms, but I have yet to meet anyone in ELT who has a good thing to say about TOEIC, including people who write TOEIC exam questions and TOEIC textbooks. For exactly the same reasons, TOEFL is rapidly losing ground to a test that shows students can speak and write before they try to join a foreign university. For these and other reasons, if the British government had asked me if ETS was a good choice, I could have advised them to run a mile. And the recent evidence proves that I would have been right.

By: Robert Bottoms

Robert Bottoms — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 03:33:31 +0000

And what history is it that I need to understanding. Sorry, but that is a pretty presumptuous statement.

All I am saying is that if your are going to criticize something, learn the facts first. Minimally go to the ETS website and look the information up before you pontificate.

By: Major Tom

Major Tom — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:48:47 +0000

Live by the sword, die by the feather, Alex. They’re all turning against you now.

By: Alex Case

Alex Case — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:38:13 +0000

Never?

TOEIC is one of many things in life that you cannot understand without an understanding of history. How long has TOEIC had a speaking component and how many people take it?

By: Robert Bottoms

Robert Bottoms — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:52:27 +0000

Talk about making an “elementary mistake”!

Maybe before you start criticizing an exam, any exam, you should at least read the promotional material, or talk to someone who has seen it.

The are two major TOEIC exams, one is a Listening & Reading exam and the other a Speaking & Writing exam. The TOEIC Listening & Reading exam has never claimed to measure any skills other than Listening or Reading.

So maybe the real moral to the story is that before running out and employing more people with TEFL experience, the government need to find people who know what they are talking about.

If you can’t get the basic facts right, why should anyone pay attention to anything else you have to say about ETS?