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	<title>Comments on: Karenne on The Industry- Interview Part Three</title>
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		<title>By: Open Access. The Joy of Sharing. &#171; Marxist TEFL Group</title>
		<link>http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/tefl/karenne-on-tefl/comment-page-1/#comment-7464</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Access. The Joy of Sharing. &#171; Marxist TEFL Group</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/?p=4066#comment-7464</guid>
		<description>[...] Alex Case (a big word yes- but Alex is deserving of it) at TEFL.net. We particularly recommend Part Three of his interview with the indomitable (for she is equally deserving of such  big word) Karenne [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Alex Case (a big word yes- but Alex is deserving of it) at TEFL.net. We particularly recommend Part Three of his interview with the indomitable (for she is equally deserving of such  big word) Karenne [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Darren Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/tefl/karenne-on-tefl/comment-page-1/#comment-7333</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/?p=4066#comment-7333</guid>
		<description>Scary, isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scary, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Marxistelf</title>
		<link>http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/tefl/karenne-on-tefl/comment-page-1/#comment-7330</link>
		<dc:creator>Marxistelf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 07:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/?p=4066#comment-7330</guid>
		<description>A goody hearty contribution to the debate on teachers&#039; pay and professionalism from Karenne. Unfortunately, whilst Karenne is a wonderfully dynamic professional carving out a niche for herself in TEFL she is having less effect than other dynamic people. Take, for instance, Bruce Veldhuisen, who Alex so graciously interviewed on this site:  http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/teaching/teaching-abroad/bruce-velhuisen-tefl-international-interview/
Now I don&#039;t want to enter a debate of what went on in what taxi, or how much a certain website is paid. What I want to say is that Alex&#039;s interview showed Bruce to be unfit to head an international organisation for teacher training. Now Bruce is enjoying considerable success with his &quot;non-profit&quot; organisation and the consequences of this are two-fold:
There is pressure to compete economically with Bruce&#039;s company
There are more and more &quot;qualified&quot; teachers looking for work

These two factors have a downward pull on the industry. Whilst it is true that certain institutions, like universities, pay  teachers better, the pay would be even better (like actually good) without this downward pull. The &quot;profession&quot; has shown itself incapable of  dealing with the likes of Bruce because it is not much better. 

So, in reply to Darren, I would say yes &quot;crappy schools deserve crappy teachers&quot; but ask do crappy hospitals deserve crappy doctors crappy nurses or crappy private cleaning companies? Don&#039;t we have to think of the service user, how we can create a better organisation capable of guaranteeing quality teaching? Such an organisation, as Darren recognises, would be in total contrast to the organisation which gave us all, or most of us, our start in teaching.

It would have to rip up the current system of  self-regulating bodies, it would have to (big deep breath) end the four week training course- go get teaching&quot; model inherrited from International House.

We as rank and file teachers have transformed ourselves in the classroom,, we have shown ourselves ever willing to learn (we have had to!!) unfortunately the professional organisations which imprison us have failed to learn anything for over 50 years.

As Tracy Chapman would say: &quot;We&#039;re talking about a revoluion&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A goody hearty contribution to the debate on teachers&#8217; pay and professionalism from Karenne. Unfortunately, whilst Karenne is a wonderfully dynamic professional carving out a niche for herself in TEFL she is having less effect than other dynamic people. Take, for instance, Bruce Veldhuisen, who Alex so graciously interviewed on this site:  http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/teaching/teaching-abroad/bruce-velhuisen-tefl-international-interview/<br />
Now I don&#8217;t want to enter a debate of what went on in what taxi, or how much a certain website is paid. What I want to say is that Alex&#8217;s interview showed Bruce to be unfit to head an international organisation for teacher training. Now Bruce is enjoying considerable success with his &#8220;non-profit&#8221; organisation and the consequences of this are two-fold:<br />
There is pressure to compete economically with Bruce&#8217;s company<br />
There are more and more &#8220;qualified&#8221; teachers looking for work</p>
<p>These two factors have a downward pull on the industry. Whilst it is true that certain institutions, like universities, pay  teachers better, the pay would be even better (like actually good) without this downward pull. The &#8220;profession&#8221; has shown itself incapable of  dealing with the likes of Bruce because it is not much better. </p>
<p>So, in reply to Darren, I would say yes &#8220;crappy schools deserve crappy teachers&#8221; but ask do crappy hospitals deserve crappy doctors crappy nurses or crappy private cleaning companies? Don&#8217;t we have to think of the service user, how we can create a better organisation capable of guaranteeing quality teaching? Such an organisation, as Darren recognises, would be in total contrast to the organisation which gave us all, or most of us, our start in teaching.</p>
<p>It would have to rip up the current system of  self-regulating bodies, it would have to (big deep breath) end the four week training course- go get teaching&#8221; model inherrited from International House.</p>
<p>We as rank and file teachers have transformed ourselves in the classroom,, we have shown ourselves ever willing to learn (we have had to!!) unfortunately the professional organisations which imprison us have failed to learn anything for over 50 years.</p>
<p>As Tracy Chapman would say: &#8220;We&#8217;re talking about a revoluion&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Karenne Sylvester</title>
		<link>http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/tefl/karenne-on-tefl/comment-page-1/#comment-7323</link>
		<dc:creator>Karenne Sylvester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/?p=4066#comment-7323</guid>
		<description>Yup, Pat - I&#039;ll be in a hammock one of these days, sipping away at my Carib beer... ah, I wish.

Thanks, Darren... Alex, the miners?   

Come on, you know what the average staff room looks like.  So, so, many teachers just whinge - to each other - my god, what can possibly come out of that?   I am for a TEFL union: if it&#039;s a good one rather than a bunch of idealistic volunteers whingeing in a giant staffroom!

K</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, Pat &#8211; I&#8217;ll be in a hammock one of these days, sipping away at my Carib beer&#8230; ah, I wish.</p>
<p>Thanks, Darren&#8230; Alex, the miners?   </p>
<p>Come on, you know what the average staff room looks like.  So, so, many teachers just whinge &#8211; to each other &#8211; my god, what can possibly come out of that?   I am for a TEFL union: if it&#8217;s a good one rather than a bunch of idealistic volunteers whingeing in a giant staffroom!</p>
<p>K</p>
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		<title>By: Darren Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/tefl/karenne-on-tefl/comment-page-1/#comment-7320</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 05:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/?p=4066#comment-7320</guid>
		<description>Yes and no Alex. I know that many of us got our break with no experience and no qualifications, and I know that short contracts, under-employment and poor working conditions are not uncommon. Be honest for a moment... there are crappy schools and crappy teachers who deserve each other. The miners were risking their lives on a daily basis to fuel a nation until Thatcher decided entire communities needed to be broken to establish her political power. Those people had no choice and were treated shamefully. Is it really an apposite comparison?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes and no Alex. I know that many of us got our break with no experience and no qualifications, and I know that short contracts, under-employment and poor working conditions are not uncommon. Be honest for a moment&#8230; there are crappy schools and crappy teachers who deserve each other. The miners were risking their lives on a daily basis to fuel a nation until Thatcher decided entire communities needed to be broken to establish her political power. Those people had no choice and were treated shamefully. Is it really an apposite comparison?</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Case</title>
		<link>http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/tefl/karenne-on-tefl/comment-page-1/#comment-7318</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Case</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/?p=4066#comment-7318</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, is that just one step from &quot;Rather than striking, the miners should&#039;ve just put their redundancy money into training as IT consultants&quot;, i.e. &quot;Get on your bike&quot;. When bankers and other managers are paid a small fortune just for going to a good school and having good hair, I hardly think demanding a living wage for English teachers is too much

To put it another way, rewards for doing a good job are all very well and good, but I&#039;m not too happy with a sink or swim TEFL world where non exceptional teachers couldn&#039;t even afford the university education that their children would need to become TEFL teachers themselves</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, is that just one step from &#8220;Rather than striking, the miners should&#8217;ve just put their redundancy money into training as IT consultants&#8221;, i.e. &#8220;Get on your bike&#8221;. When bankers and other managers are paid a small fortune just for going to a good school and having good hair, I hardly think demanding a living wage for English teachers is too much</p>
<p>To put it another way, rewards for doing a good job are all very well and good, but I&#8217;m not too happy with a sink or swim TEFL world where non exceptional teachers couldn&#8217;t even afford the university education that their children would need to become TEFL teachers themselves</p>
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		<title>By: Darren Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/tefl/karenne-on-tefl/comment-page-1/#comment-7317</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/?p=4066#comment-7317</guid>
		<description>I liked this part the best.... it&#039;s all very well complaining about being ripped off, but when so many English teachers world wide are hired for nothing other than their mother tongue then they are being paid what they deserve. If you want better treatment, earn it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked this part the best&#8230;. it&#8217;s all very well complaining about being ripped off, but when so many English teachers world wide are hired for nothing other than their mother tongue then they are being paid what they deserve. If you want better treatment, earn it!</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/tefl/karenne-on-tefl/comment-page-1/#comment-7313</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/?p=4066#comment-7313</guid>
		<description>I agree that courses will probably look very diffferent in 10 or 15 years. My prediction though would be that the huge increase in learners and the continued lack of adequate training of teachers will mean a greater market for standardised language courses of which continually improving textbooks will be an element. 

It&#039;s a process of change, not a sudden moment when we&#039;ll all throw textbooks out the window. The following are all happening as we speak (or Tweet as the case may be):

The development of courses is becoming increasingly based on communication between publishers who listen to the market and the teachers in the markets. This communication has become the primary factor in determining the nature and content of courses should &#039;be&#039;.

Courses themselves are becoming more interactive, web-linked and incorporate more digital content. Textbooks are becoming just an element in courses which are increasingly offering support through a variety of intra-course and inter-user features.

Course developers are well aware of the limitations as well as the benefits of a global product and courses are getting more local support. I believe this is called Glocalisation. I also believe it combines the best of both worlds.

Karenne&#039;s remarks about our beerier colleagues might be the reason there&#039;s still a lot of life left in the textbook. &#039;Flop-and-go&#039; is the term used to describe books that work well without any preparation and all the factors mentioned above are actually increasing the Flop-and-goability of textbooks. 

Good teachers have always understood that a course is not the be all and end all of their teaching but can be a useful and integrated point of departure. Courses in the future will be more interesting and better integrated with the world around and involve whatever the technology is at that time. That&#039;s what language teaching has always done.

I suspect at that stage &#039;Karenne&#039; will have become a digital entity beamed around the world directly to our implanted memory chips! I hope when that day comes, the teacher formerly known as Karenne is enjoying a beer somewhere nice, possibly even with some of her less-motivated friends. My bet is that she will be. Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that courses will probably look very diffferent in 10 or 15 years. My prediction though would be that the huge increase in learners and the continued lack of adequate training of teachers will mean a greater market for standardised language courses of which continually improving textbooks will be an element. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a process of change, not a sudden moment when we&#8217;ll all throw textbooks out the window. The following are all happening as we speak (or Tweet as the case may be):</p>
<p>The development of courses is becoming increasingly based on communication between publishers who listen to the market and the teachers in the markets. This communication has become the primary factor in determining the nature and content of courses should &#8216;be&#8217;.</p>
<p>Courses themselves are becoming more interactive, web-linked and incorporate more digital content. Textbooks are becoming just an element in courses which are increasingly offering support through a variety of intra-course and inter-user features.</p>
<p>Course developers are well aware of the limitations as well as the benefits of a global product and courses are getting more local support. I believe this is called Glocalisation. I also believe it combines the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>Karenne&#8217;s remarks about our beerier colleagues might be the reason there&#8217;s still a lot of life left in the textbook. &#8216;Flop-and-go&#8217; is the term used to describe books that work well without any preparation and all the factors mentioned above are actually increasing the Flop-and-goability of textbooks. </p>
<p>Good teachers have always understood that a course is not the be all and end all of their teaching but can be a useful and integrated point of departure. Courses in the future will be more interesting and better integrated with the world around and involve whatever the technology is at that time. That&#8217;s what language teaching has always done.</p>
<p>I suspect at that stage &#8216;Karenne&#8217; will have become a digital entity beamed around the world directly to our implanted memory chips! I hope when that day comes, the teacher formerly known as Karenne is enjoying a beer somewhere nice, possibly even with some of her less-motivated friends. My bet is that she will be. Cheers!</p>
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