Bruce Veldhuisen interview Part Three- TEFL and TI update
Hi Bruce, welcome back to TEFLtastic. It’s a shame we never get anyone from TEFL International contributing to TEFL.net when it isn’t connected to teacher training. Let me know if any of your trainers are interested in writing book reviews or articles for us.
I am certain that can be arranged!
For Part Three, I’d like to do an update on what has changed in TEFL International and in the TEFL world more generally since your last comment in Interview Part Two on 28 July this year. I haven’t been following all the various stories very closely, so apologies if you have to repeat some things you’ve said many times elsewhere but I guess most people reading are in the same situation as me. I’ll ask for your comments on things I’ve heard, and then give you a chance to mention other things.
OK
There are some reports of trouble with the immigration police connected to a TEFL International course in China- any information or comments?
I heard it all second hand but this is what I know. In April 2008 the visa laws in China changed leading up to the Olympics. Some people got caught in the cracks, the Course Administrator really failed (failed might be too strong of a term as it was a difficult if not impossible situation) and the police closed down the school.
I was unhappy with the way the CA handled things and I relieved him of his duties. I immediately resolved the situation and we began offering legal courses the following month.
I have publicly posted on several websites about this situation and asked that if anyone feels they were cheated in some way that they should contact me directly or contact the BBB.
Can’t you just contact the course participants directly through their contact details and offer everyone a refund or whatever?
The accusation was not about one specific course. It was a general accusation about our course in Beijing and even our organization in general. Therefore we made a general offer to any participants that feel they have been cheated.
Has this made you make changes to how you recruit Course Administrators so that you get someone you don’t have to fire next time?
Unfortunately, no. The CA was a grad and we thought he was good and professional. Hiring is not, nor has it ever been, an exact science.
In the comments of Interview Part Two I also gave a link to someone saying that they’d paid for a course under another name in Argentina (“My program (GIC Argentina) sends its TEFL students to the TEFL International classes, but they never told me that or where to go or when”) and then were surprised (but remarkably unperturbed) when they got moved over to a TEFL International course.
I actually have no idea. Perhaps a local course that was unable to run with one or two trainees decided to send them over to us?
So you give individual centres a lot of freedom to decide this kind of stuff without contacting TEFL International central?
Not really. I am a bit baffled about this “complaint”. I would guess that this person jus became confused after looking at 10 different sites with 10 slightly different claims and became confused. That happens a lot.
Do you not think most of the genuine complaints there have been come down to this?
No. There have been a few instances when a trainer just does not do his/her job well or circumstances beyond our control cause a problem.
Do you think that would be acceptable if it happened?
Every case is different. Whenever we have a complaint we deal with every person differently, depending upon how they want to proceed.
Are there any other genuine and bogus complaints since you last commented here that you’d like to mention or explain how you responded?
The only major event in the last year plus has been July Beijing. Everything has been rather smooth. A minor hiccup with British Council but that seems to have been resolved.
Can you/ would you like to give details on the British Council thing?
[No answer given]
I’ve also seen your own comments on Ajarn about court cases you’ve been involved in. Can you give us a brief update here?
Not a lot more has happened since my ajarn.com update. The court cases are going very well from our side and I believe they will completely vindicate me and all the crazy accusations that were made on TEFLWatch and several other sites that used TW as a source. It will never make all the attacks worthwhile, but there will at least be some justice.
I can’t find the original thread. Can you summarize it here?
Dumb guy who cheated me is thoroughly exposed in court. He was one of the main posters on ajarn.com attacking me and now he has been exposed as a liar and a thief. More charges still pending and more people will go to jail in the end.
This is not a fun situation for me. Far from it. But after I was blatantly cheated and then publicly humiliated with lies on TW by these guys, I cannot say I am not looking forward to getting a bit of justice.
In a Stickman interview (http://www.stickmanweekly.com/StickMarkII/BruceVeldhuisenLordOfTEFL.htm) you really lay into the people who post on Ajarn, so why would you start your own thread on it?
I posted it on the 2 main sites frequented by expats in Thailand. One of those sites is ajarn.com. TW was always predominantly Thai-based and ajarn.com is certainly one of the best ways to contact the Thailand teaching community.
I also read someone suggesting that Dave Hopkins has moved on from TEFL International. If that is true it must be a blow, as your comments seemed to suggest you relied on him a lot to maintain academic standards since you stopped using IATQUO.
Dave is still very much a full-time employee of TEFL International. I appreciate his skills, dedication and efforts very much. But he is going to retire eventually.
Any idea how the rumour started?
LOL you must be joking. In the two years under which I have been under attack, the rumours have either been a very serious twist of the truth or simply a complete fabrication. There are people who will simply MAKE THINGS UP out of thin air. And some of these people owned and controlled rather prominent websites. I could give you dozens and dozens of examples.
Well, Dave WILL retire eventually I have no doubt. Just a guess but I would think Dave has worked longer for me than for any other employer. He now works PT at Asian University but he has an agreement with me to work at least through June of 2009.
The site ESL Judge, that you supported the setting up of and was supposed to offer a fairer arbitration process than blogs such as this seems to have disappeared. Any idea what happened?
None. It’s too bad. A worthwhile site that tried to assist people in resolving disputes. I am tempted to try to get it reopened.
Sandy MacManus’s most recent blog has also bitten the dust (with the person who was blackmailing him with revealing his true identity trying to make him think the attacks came from you, amongst others). A cause for joy amongst TEFL course providers such as yourself, or do you think TEFL blacklisters do have a role to play?
I think bloggers have to be fair. Sandy was not. One prime example was when someone made a comment he interpreted to be a physical threat. He immediately accused me and spent quite a bit of time calling me every name in the book. When it turned out to be just an inside joke from his friend, he never retracted a thing he said or bothered to apologize. People with that mentality, with such an inability to treat people fairly, should not have blogs.
I see your point of course, but journalists get paid to do lots of research and have legal departments and editors to make sure they remain fair. If you haven’t got some kind of passion driving you such as a chip on your shoulder, why would you bother running such a site for no pay? The way I see it, if Sandy doesn’t do it no one will. (My own motivation for blogging is a vague hope that people will offer me paid ELT writing work, but TEFL blacklisting bores me so I don’t bother even though I think it could be a worthy cause if done properly).
So what you are saying is its ok to do a half-assed job. It’s only the internet and we do this for free. Sorry, that just doesn’t cut it. The reality is that sandy has the potential to be read by millions of people. If he is not going to do a professional job of it he should keep his opinions to himself.
Alex, remember that when you have a site like sandy’s you are potentially damaging the livelihood of hundreds of people. He has certainly damaged my reputation. And with what information? Absolute lies copied from TW. Lies easily proven to be lies. Did he bother to spend 2 minutes emailing me for my side of the story? Nope.
I believe in Karma.
Thanks Bruce.
Comments and questions from others welcome, but under the usual rules:
- One comment or question per post
- No posting twice in a row without anyone else posting in between
- Keep to the topics in this interview or in previous comments
- Try to be nice
Bruce will, of course, also be told to keep to those rules. I will also be nagging him to actually do something about real contributions from TI to TEFL.net…
Tags: Interviews
November 17th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Thanks to both interviewer and interviewee for this piece. I for one am genuinely glad that this issue has been given an appropriate forum for discussion.
November 17th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Well, it’s a nice try, Brucie, but you don’t really have the flair or the intelligence to pull it off, do you? I mean, you’re trying REAL HARD to come across as either a victim or an innocent bystander, but there’s something vital missing, and the show just doesn’t leave me (or anybody else, according to popular estimates) at all convinced.
Firstly, let’s make a rational appeal to logic. There are many hundreds of Tefl schools and course providers, but the ones that seem to get crap thrown at them are always the same. I mean, there’s your outfit, Paul Lowe, Smiths’ Schools in Japan, Berlitz, etc, etc. The same names every time. Doesn’t that seem to indicate that something is wrong with those places? Put it another way – 98% have nothing libellous or scandalous written about them; 2% do.
Surely, if I took a job at the Billy Bunter School of English in Barcelona, or did a Tefl course with Languages United, and had a great time there, why would I want to then spread lies about them on the internet? It don’t make no sense, mate. And if I had a grievance and then raised it, and it was dealt with to my satisfaction, I would have no reason to then slag the place off mercilessly, would I?
As for your personal accusations against me, I have no trouble in eagerly accepting my guilt – although I must say that I have little or no recollection of some of your more specific claims (which doesn’t mean that they didn’t take place, just that I don’t remember).
For example, you said “One prime example was when someone made a comment he interpreted to be a physical threat. He immediately accused me and spent quite a bit of time calling me every name in the book. When it turned out to be just an inside joke from his friend, he never retracted a thing he said or bothered to apologize.”
Perhaps you’d like to enlighten me as to the exact nature of this threat, abuse, friendly lark, etc? I do recall giving you a whole blog-posting to yourself on my previous Tefl Tradesman blog, in response to an article about Tefl International I’d found on Tefl Watch, so I don’t feel it’s fair to imply I gave you no right to reply. Again, I’m not saying these things didn’t happen, just that either I’m getting forgetful … or you’re peddling porkies.
Bruce also stated the following: “The reality is that Sandy has the potential to be read by millions of people.” Ha-ha! Several hundred at most, I’d say Bruce – and that’s on a very good week. And then there’s this: “If he is not going to do a professional job of it he should keep his opinions to himself.” We could apply that criteria to Tefl International too, I believe. The difference is that I am not taking money off people – I’m just an amateur, after all – whereas your outfit relieves many people of their cash at frequent intervals. So make sure you do a professional job too, mate!
In fact, your comments in the interview above give me the impression of a man who is ever keen to wriggle out of his professional obligations, especially when your organisation is shown to be failing in its duty to its customers. Just take a close look at the following: “Some people got caught in the cracks” – oh how unfortunate, it really was not your fault at all, then! And don’t forget “the Course Administrator really failed” – yeah, pass the buck pronto, eh?! Later you claim “Hiring is not, nor has it ever been, an exact science.” Yeah, life’s a bitch, eh? So let’s not blame you for hiring a schmuck. Very professional, Bruce!
As for the lies and lies he claims, well what about this: “Did he bother to spend 2 minutes emailing me for my side of the story? Nope” That is AN ABSOLUTE LIE! I already stated above that I gave you a whole blog posting to yourself – and I’ll republish it if necessary, when the Tefl Tradesman blog rises from the ashes (some time after Santa has called, as he promised to provide me with some essential items of legal paraphernalia) Bruce later states “There are people who will simply MAKE THINGS UP out of thin air.” Oh yes, there certainly ARE, Bruce – and you’re one of them!
Another example of Bruce passing the buck or claiming ‘force majeure’: “There have been a few instances when a trainer just does not do his/her job well or circumstances beyond our control cause a problem.” Very professional – and I guess I guess there have been a few cases of Bruce not doing his job well, too.
All in all, Bruce, in the interview you come across as a half-educated snake-oil salesman. Which is not to say that you really ARE a snake-oil salesman; just that you appear to resemble one. OK?
Finally, Bruce says “I believe in Karma.” So do I Bruce – so do I!
PS: So now we know who was the ‘Michael Flynn’ behind the stalking blog, designed to out me. Ah-ha!! Well, Bruce, why don’t you just ask Alex – he knows my real name!
November 17th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Yes, here it is – from June this year.
The TEFL Tradesman: Bruce Veldhuisen Puts His Case.
Bruce Veldhuisen, CEO at Tefl International, has been in touch with me several times recently. It would appear that he’s …
tefltradesman.blogspot.com/2008/06/bruce-veldhuisen-puts-his-case.html?showComment=1216286040000 – 83k – Cached – Similar pages
You’ll need to try the cached version, as the blog has ‘expired’. In fact, I PULLED ALL THE NEGATIVE STUFF ABOUT TEFL INTERNATIONAL AT MIKE FITZGERALD’S REQUEST. But Bruce doesn’t mention that – maybe he forgot? He didn’t know? Or he prefered to TELL MORE LIES…
“Did he bother to spend 2 minutes emailing me for my side of the story? Nope.”
There’s the proof above. Now, dear Tefl public, do you still prefer to believe the words of the apparent snake-oil salesman?
“There are people who will simply MAKE THINGS UP out of thin air. “!!!!!
November 17th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Found it! So, yes, I DID e-mail Bruce for his side of the story, and published it all in good faith. Enjoy…
On Wed, 18/6/08, The Tefl Tradesman wrote:
From: The Tefl Tradesman
Subject: [The TEFL Tradesman] Bruce Veldhuisen Puts His Case
To: teflsandy@yahoo.ie
Date: Wednesday, 18 June, 2008, 12:22 PM
Bruce Veldhuisen, CEO at Tefl International, has been in touch with me several times recently. It would appear that he’s none too happy with some of the seedier accusations about him and his TEFL racket that have been surfacing on this blog.
Of course, I did point out to him that the ‘TEFL’ at the top of this blog stands for “Telling Enormous Fuggin’ Lies”, but he has not ceased his harassment of Sandy one bit. So, in order to square things up a little, and to fill a bit of empty space in the day, here is a selection of some of Bruce’s choicest words (all much too polite, by the way – you really should learn to show your anger, Brucie!)…
Dear Sandy,
I just wanted you to know that your website is completely filled with inaccurate information about TEFL International and me personally. You may not care. I am not going to lose any sleep over your site. But in case you actually care about accuracy, why not correspond with me?
So I did, and this is what I received in a series of e-mails.
Well, here’s my problem. The whole thing was… crap! From the unsubstantiated claims that our student comment are fake, to claims that I got TEFLWatch closed down (I just got an Email from Greg Woods today), to claims I am a bisexual!
Sandy, I have a sense of humor like the next guy, but there doesn’t seem to be one real accusation in there of someone being actually cheated or being unhappy with the course. Or am I missing something? The blog claimed TEFL International was a scam but there wasn’t a single person claiming to be scammed!
Here’s something you might want to include in your blog. We have been members of the Better Business Bureau for 5 years. During that time we have had 9 complaints. That’s 9 complaints out of about 10,000 students. And all of these complaints have been resolved or we offered a resolution that the BBB felt was fair. Does that sound like the operating record of a scamster?
Before you go believing everything you read at TEFLWatch and posting it as truth you might want to contact the webmaster at http://www.teakdoor.com. He allowed a thread from a former mod from teflwatch to expose just how the entire witch hunt against me and TEFL International was just that, a witch hunt based upon a vendetta from a handful of misguided and angry souls.
It was this thread on teakdoor.com and the attacks from the former moderator that became so embarrassing to TEFLWatch that it closed.
And the owner of TEFLWatch then started making a bunch of wild accusations against these two individuals. Some of the same wild accusations that were made about me.
As for http://bewareofteflinternational.blogspot.com/ , Bruce offers the following recommendation…
We know who he is. He failed his course. We gave his work to THREE trainers. They all agreed. He failed.
So what did we do? We offered him to retake the course for free. He claimed he was going to China and could not retake. So we offered the course free in CHINA. Again he refused. What are we supposed to do? Beg his forgiveness?
Then he started harassing us with 30 Emails a day calling us every name in the book. He then made up fake complaints about us from his classmates. Would you like to read what they had to say about that? Would you like to be in touch with them?
Honestly, Sandy, shouldn’t you do a bit of research before you go posting things as true?
Anyway, I have a proposition for you. I would like to challenge you to find any employee I have not paid, any student on a Tefl course that was cheated, or any incident that makes me seem like an untrustworthy character. You will find a few odd accusations out there—it comes with the territory. But if I can show you how each of those few complaints had been dealt with professionally and honestly, you write a nice big retraction in your blog and admit all the other posted stuff is just a bit of sour grapes by a few posers.
Bruce A. Veldhuisen – brucev@teflintl.com
Ok, so that’s the challenge then – to find a disgruntled ex-employee or ex-student of Tefl International; or even just an unhappy ‘acquaintance’ of the man. I don’t figure it will be too difficult – don’t ask me why, it’s just a hunch.
So, if you are one of those poor souls who have been sucked in by the heartless Tefl International money-making machine, just put your name and the nature of your complaint below, and I’ll pass it on to Brucie babes. OK?
I can’t get fairer than that, now, can I?!
–
Posted By The Tefl Tradesman to The TEFL Tradesman at 6/18/2008 12:10:00 PM
November 17th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Nice diatribe, Sandy.
As I said in my post about Beijing, THE BUCK STOPS HERE. I was not personally involved in what happened in Beijing. It wasn’t my fault. But it is certainly my responsibility. I do not run and hide from it. I will repeat. Every problem at TEFL International (and if you really count actual complaints (and ignore complete fabrications from ridiculous sites like TW, there were very few) is MY RESPONSIBILITY.
And as for the comment I am referring to, its your site. You expect me to go find it.
And if you want to lose all credibility, go on quoting a site that even the mods abandoned and outed the owner. LOL
November 18th, 2008 at 12:23 am
PS: If you did pull all the negative stuff at Mike’s request, I apologize. I do not frequent your site so I did not know it had been removed.
November 19th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Bruce, you have been saying that you were cheated by some dumb guy who will be thoroughly exposed in court.You say now he has now been exposed as a liar and a thief and there are more charges still pending and more people will go to jail in the end.
Who has ended up in jail?
Who has been exposed as a liar?
Who will be charged and with what?
All we have is your side of these accusations, if they are already in the hands of the court tell us how you were cheated because all the evidence points to you being the cheat.
The rumours were you did not pay your local business partners what you owed them, you are the one who has been trying to put pressure on others with your threats of legal action for years,trying to shut them up, you still do it on this site..
How do we know your side of the story is true?
Why should we believe you?
How could someone who sold you a business which you screwed up be charged with criminal actions after your guys carried out due diligence?
How can a man who canceled a sale of a school where no money changed hands be charged with a criminal act.
I have read all the threads so I have a good grip of what was said and I think you are running for the sympathy vote.
You say some guy and his wife will be arrested if they enter Thailand and they are hiding, I think they are sitting at home in Thailand laughing at your comments, laughing at you trying to defending yourself after all these years.
You hate this guy with a vengeance, why?
Did he show you up for what you are?
You make all these accusations and blow hot air but the reason you are in court now is that the other guy took you!
An ex employee who took you for making false statements to the police!
Not you taking him for being a liar and a thief!
Bruce, you have been shown to make up stories and blame everyone in the world except yourself, which stories about you were false as they all seem accurate to me….but, I am only one man and I am sure you will accuse me of being a troll.
You use teakdoor as a reference, shit bro look at some of the posts on that site, including your own about screwing dogs and blow jobs off animals and you expect everyone to take that as serious proof you were right….get real!
Feel free to sue me for my comments, it seems to be the only argument you have left.
PS. I don’t think it is your courses that people object to I think it is your obnoxious attitude towards others.
CEO of the biggest Teacher Training operation in the world, f8ing joke more like!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Alex wrote:
Can you/ would you like to give details on the British Council thing?
[No answer given by Bruce]
In part two, I pointed out how I believed TI seemed to be intentionally misleading people by trying to claim that they ‘met’ the BC criteria, yet they were not actually accepted. TI previously had several statements prominently displayed on their main website about this and they now appear to have been completely removed (but still remain on various franchise sites). What happened? Did the BC finally ask you to take that down?
There was also a testimonial displayed on the main page that named David Nunan. His name and qualifications have been removed from the main website and it now reads:
A prominent former Teachers of English to Students of Other Languages President and internationally-known author.
What happened? Has he asked you not to use his name?
November 19th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
This is all very confusing… TI, ITTI,TEFLCORPS,TESOLCERTIFICATES,BEST TEFL…all are the same courses???
ITTI in their FAQ
>
@ http://www.tesolcourse.com/tesol-faqs.php
<>
Notice use of ALL of our courses! And use of terminology which could be be considered misleading….. MODERATED, VALIDATED, ACCREDITED.
Can somebody enlighten?
A pal of mine’s cousin applied for a job at British Council and received this response”
‘To date, TEFL International teacher training qualifications have not been approved as meeting British Council requirements for employment in our teaching centres around the world or as IELTS examiners. There is a process for obtaining such approval from the British Council, which has yet to be fulfilled by TEFL International as they have not provided the British Council with adequate documentary evidence of external validation of their qualifications.
TEFL International did not obtain British Council consent to make references to our acceptance of their qualifications on their web sites or elsewhere. They have recently agreed to remove these but, as yet, not all have been removed.
If you wish to pursue this matter further, then we advise you to contact TEFL International directly.’
….and here is what they want of a course….6 hrs TP and 100 hrs input, externally assessed and validated.
Comments on the professionalism of BV,TI,ITTI etc?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
TEFLista
Good point on the BC stuff. Shame about your accusations (now deleted) that Bruce answered questions about recent difficulties to deflect attention from previous ones. I contacted him about Part Three, and I chose the questions. If I did not put as much effort into it as previous attempts, that is because some people have made me tire somewhat of my unpaid role.
Bruce
Any comment on BC and any movement on TEFL international actually contributing to TEFL.net (and therefore TEFL more generally)?
November 20th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Bruce, You say that a man you did business with cheated you.
You say that he will be arrested as soon as he enters Thailand.
Name him and tell us all what he did to rob you if you think you are right, I believe as soon as you mention his full name and make your accusations in public you will be hit by a law suit that will leave you with no where to run.
If you do not name this guy and make the accusations in full them you are left looking like a limp dick at a wedding!
Which way do you want to do this?
How far do you want to push this PR campaign?
I believe that you are the one that has got off lightly, the person who you have not named, but implied, who you have accused of being a crook, thief and liar by proxy is now waiting for you to name him/her.
Show us all you are the man you think you are!
November 21st, 2008 at 11:36 am
Dang Bruce! Still keeping the sh[EDITED] going? Never say DIE!
My big question is this: How is the downturn in the global economy affecting the TEFL course providers, in your opinion?
Are more people seeking an adventure teaching English or can the typical college grad afford TEFL training now?
November 21st, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Oh boy, it looks like the whole TW gang is back. Remember, guys, last time you tried this on a WELL MODERATED forum (i.e. NOT TW) you all got very embarrassed and it ended in the owner of TW calling peoples wives names and claiming the owner of the site was participating in illegal activities. Watch out, Alex. If you do not roll over and attack TI you will soon be accused of being on my payroll. Or worse. LOL
[EDITED- comments about comments above later deleted]
Mildmanneredman: LOL what am I asking you to believe? That an unnamed person did some unnamed illegal things. Its funny how offended you are and how many specifics you come up with! I am keeping it general because its not you, me or Alex that will eventually decide, it’s the courts. And I am extremely confident. Is that confidence misplaced? We will see. But the real Estate guy in Pattaya just got 12 million baht just because someone posting lies about him on the internet. Now I have Libel and about 5 other criminal charges against “you know who” and I am not looking for money. I am looking for jail time.
For me its pretty easy—its all in court. “Fair” is up for his next public humiliation next week. Last time I saw him he was looking very dejected as he left the District Attorney’s office having been told that, yes, the criminal charges are moving forward against him and that, yes, he was potentially facing some pretty significant jail time.
And for a guy who publicly called me out on several occasions and “dared” me to sue him, the guy I am talking about sure is looking silly now,wherever he is hiding.
TEFLista: The British Council thing should have been answered, but I put it off and then forgot. Alex, perhaps you can put this in the main section as well.
Despite the fact that I believe our external moderation and public feedback is the most open and independent in the world, the British Council asked us for documentation and support/oversite from at least one university. We have now supplied them with everything they have asked for and I believe the situation has been completely resolved, although we are awaiting final confirmation from the BC.
David Nunan quote—yes he asked to have his name removed. He told me he was getting “harassed” by one or two nuts with an “axe to grind”. He still participates in our BOAA but he no longer wants his name on our website.
Doug: GUILTY AS CHARGED. We have marketing agents that all market our course using different websites. All are the same price, course date, course name, and content. If this is somehow misleading you will need to enlighten me.
TEFL International courses are moderated (monthly by a member of our BOAA), validated (initially by several universities to determine overall content) and accredited (assessed for credit). If THIS is unethical, please explain.
Mildmanneredman, the “by all accounts” accusation made me laugh. By all accounts, huh? Can you list 5 people who feel they have been cheated by mean old Bruce? In 10 years of running TEFL International and 6 years of running English schools? Man, most DOS have 5 people who hate them every MONTH. Alex, am I right?
So you name 10 people who hate me (and I doubt you can even come up with 10) and I will name 100 who think I am an ok guy. Of course, just one “Bruce Supporter” destroys your whole “by all accounts” crap but, hey, I am game.
The losers who attack us (and I am NOT talking about real grads who have legitimate complaints) are smaller in number than one group of trainees in one course in one location in one month. The fact that these few of you have nothing better to do than attack me says far more about you than it does about me.
Alex, tell me specifically what we can do. Happy to help if we can. Of course that will just prove that you are “on my side” from the very beginning lol.
Topper. It goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on…. the fact is it will probably not end until after the court cases are finished. And when they start to feel nervous (and you can tell they do) they start to post again.
To answer your question… I think both. More people will come but a smaller percentage will get the cert. Just an opinion.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Well Bruce, you did not have the balls to name this guy or put you accusation in print, I wonder why?
I noticed you were the one that reopened the “shit” as topper puts it by filing YOUR report on a number of sites, no one else started it,just you!
Libel, now there’s a good one, just because some real estate guy got money you think you can get some guy jail time…I suppose he could say you calling him a one man band, a conman, a liar and more was libel…oh but then you then bought his company is the way I read it.
You then destroyed it, would be interested in seeing them turn that round to criminal charges after you did a complete check on it.
Then the school which they did not follow through on the sale of…pretty hard to make that a criminal case unless they change the law…can you arrange that as you seem to think you can walk on water..
All this is available for people to read and it has been going on for years, that’s how I know so much about it, nothing sinister I assure you.
I want you to name him and give us the deeds he commited, I want to see if he has the balls to take you or if he is really hiding. It might just put an end to this saga.
This other guy “Fair” I know nothing about apart from your story which you wrote to waken my interest.
This is not like TW, this is Bruce blowing hot air around about how he is so confident he will get these guys jailed, I can’t see how this guy who dared you to sue him looks silly now,he has not given an answer yet, just name him and we will see who looks silly.
I’m not accusing you of anything Bruce or did you miss that, I just want you to prove to us your telling the truth..if your that confident and the charges are in front of the DA then it does not mater.
I don’t feel nervous Bruce but it seems you do by the way you keep clear of answering the question.
I am not attacking your courses, I may be attacking your bad attitude to others, that’s about all!
November 22nd, 2008 at 3:37 am
Bruce
Getting recognition from the British Council for your qualifications would indeed be an acheivement (despite your dismissal of any need to get British Council certification for the school in the UK- after claiming you had it- not as useful for marketing I guess, but I believe even more important for showing a minimum level of professionalism of the school there), so please let us know when it is all done and dusted, with some proof if you can. Does this whole thing not mean, however, that for at least some period (years?) TEFL International was claiming recognition from the British Council whilst that was not the case?
And why is the British Council thing important at all? Because positive feedback from trainees is nice, but by no means the most important thing for an academic organisation. Most MacDonalds customers are happy, but it doesn’t mean they are getting good food. You are claiming high academic standards for your courses (occasionally saying better than Cambridge), so repeating how many happy customers you have is not answering the question.
I am willing to accept that the inspections of every course are equivalent to Cambridge and Trinity ones or a British Council inspection of a school in the UK (and anyway , the Trinity ones are far less strict than BC or Camb.) until I have evidence otherwise, as it isn’t rocket science to set such a system up. The only evidence an outsider can possibly have is how often schools fail inspections and lose their certification, which none of those three organisations have a particularly good record for (and again Trinity is the least strict), but that on its own is not really enough to judge by. My question anyway is more about there being a system of putting academic standards first right up to the top of the organisation. I still fail to see that philosophy in TI from your answers to our questions, whereas despite recent changes Cambridge often has the opposite problem of “we are the academics and know better” getting in the way of being customer focused.
Your answers in previous interviews have convinced me that the Board of Academic whathaveyou do very little actual supervision (rather than giving advice), and that things rely on a few people who could soon disappear rather than an institutional structure. Even if we could rely on the top 3 of TI to be academically focused more than/ as much as/ as well as customer/ money focused, if the three of you were on the same plane that went down there is no guarantee that that philosophy will remain or even that TI will survive. For most people going into TEFL that doesn’t matter, and neither will the fact that few if any TI certified people work for the British Council, but for lifers like me if you are in fact the 2nd biggest TEFL course provider (i to i TEFL claim 15,000 last year), how academically respectable TI is and is considered to be is more important than how your customers feel. As such, you will get criticism from disinterested people like me until you can answer our questions under our criteria.
Picking up on some more of your statements above:
“We have marketing agents that all market our course using different websites. All are the same price, course date, course name, and content.”
In previous parts of the interview or comments on, you have replied to comments on websites claiming that TI still have IATQUO accreditation with something like “those are our agents, we can’t control everything they write”. This is an admission from you of what is quite clearly true- many of your agents do not put exactly the same information up, and that is without knowing what they say on the phone (they are agents, after all). It is my strong suspicion, strengthened by your comments on the Argentina thing I mentioned in this interview, that some of your agents are taking money for TEFL International courses without ever mentioning the words “TEFL International” or even using different names. For example, even when TEFLtastic was a top ten Google search for “TEFL International” (we are now back to the unhealthy position where, unlike hotel reviews etc, very few of the top searches are independant voices) almost nobody ended up here searching for that or variations on it.
Re, the accusations about Sandy accusing you of threatening him. Wasn’t that on the TEFL Blacklist with the blogger there?
“Every problem at TEFL International … is MY RESPONSIBILITY.”
How is “recruitment is not an exact science” and other comments that problems do not lead to changes show accepting responsibility?
The court case stuff interests me not at all one way or the other, but I must agree that you risked appearing to have double standards yet again by using internet forums to post something like that. And again, it hardly decreased the number of attacks and I can’t imagine it led to anyone who was undecided choosing one of your courses, so I don’t see the practical point.
You can get your organisation to really contribute here and stop some of the comments about lack of publications etc (why are TESOL conference talsk usually by you rather than your trainers?) of TI trainers by getting them to submit articles and teaching ideas here:
http://edition.tefl.net/
getting them to volunteer to review textbooks etc here:
http://www.tefl.net/reviews/reviewers-guide.htm
or getting them to give teaching advice (sometimes even without plugging TI) here:
http://www.tefl.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=26
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:14 am
Mildmannered: I live in Thailand, and in thailand the libel laws are very different than those in the US or other Western countries. Here, if I publicly embarrass someone (even if the accusations are true) I am guilty of Libel. So my guess here is that you know this, you (or your friend) are getting desperate, so you thought you might trick me into naming names and getting myself in trouble. It will not happen. Nice try, though.
And the criminal charges are substantial–not JUST libel like the guy in Pattaya. You can speculate all you want, but I am not going to discuss the legalities here in a public forum–that’s what courts are for. If the guy wants to see all the charges against him all he has to do is go see my attorney. He has already been sent the contact info.
If you really think this guy is laughing somewhere, then you do not understand the gravity of the situation. These charges will follow him forever. they will not just fade away.
And unless you come up with something NEW, I think I am done answering your comments and questions.
Alex: our LOCAL BOAA does exactly what a Trinity moderator does:
1. Check all course documentation
2. Interview the trainers
3. View some TP
4. Interview tranees in small groups
The only difference is they do not all fly out from London (they are local professionals like DOS and other teacher trainers).
its the INTERNATIONAL BOAA that only give advice.
The only reason why we want BC “approval” is for the trainees who want to work at a BC “accredited” language school in the UK. But obviously putting us on equal footing with the two British courses would be a pretty big deal for us.
And as far as false advertising, I would say that its the BC that are being difficult and in accurate, not us. We obviously comply with every one of their requirements, they just like to make us dance every so often–hoping this is the last time.
Alex, I only bring up the legal issues because all this started with some crap on TW and we all agreed it would eventually be settled in court. Those who were around for that might just be interested in whats going on.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:16 am
PS: TEFL International does not have anything to do with IATQUO,but our marketing agent has online courses that are “accredited” through that organization.
If I missed any of your questions, Alex, send me an Email.
November 22nd, 2008 at 11:14 am
Thank you Bruce, you have said nothing because you have got nothing, except a big mouth!
You also need to point out that the libel laws in Thailand need you to show what harm has been done to your reputation and business, going by what you have said nothing has been damaged and you seem to have more business through this period.
I am sorry to say the guy in question is not a friend of mine but if I had to pick one from the both of you it would probably be him!
As you have finished with me then I’m done here as i see no reason to keep flogging a dead horse.I don’t think we will ever see the end of this saga, it will go on longer than Dallas!
Thanks Alex for letting me post.
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Bruce, one final thought before taking my leave, you said…
I live in Thailand, and in thailand the libel laws are very different than those in the US or other Western countries. Here, if I publicly embarrass someone (even if the accusations are true)I am guilty of Libel.
This guy may have been telling the truth about you and all indicators point to he was, but you will use the law in Thailand as a way of shutting up any criticism which would not be allowed in the US or UK.
This says a lot about the kind of man you are!
I think you had better look very carefully at what you said over the last couple of years because if I was him, you would swing as well!
I found this little gem on one site:
From: Bxxxxxxn [mailto:bxxxxx@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:21 AM
To: brucev@teflintl.com
Subject: Problems and suggestions
HI, Bruce
1. Maha director will be back until April 8th. Talked to the head of EP earlier. She said we will need a proposal first.
[EDITED- this is not anywhere else on the internet and so I have no proof that it is not just completely made up]
Well if i can find this I am sure others can, don’t make you out the most honest guy on two legs does it……
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:03 pm
I think Bruce can find this email in his sent box………he may deny it being there, I would if I were him!
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Lol well I checked my sent box and and found nothing but… someone SENT me this Email, right? I RECEIVED it, and no matter how damaging it is, I did not write it and you are not claiming I did. Kind of silly, right?
It was not in my inbox, either. If I did receive it, it shows how much I thought of it.
Funny how these people who have nothing to do weith the situation magically come up with private emails. mildmanneredman, now that you have exposed yourself, i just want to say, your kids are very nice and i do not really want to send your husband to jail but you were a big part of this as well. The two of you will, unfortunately, get what you both deserve.
November 22nd, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Alex wrote:
“For most people going into TEFL that doesn’t matter, and neither will the fact that few if any TI certified people work for the British Council, but for lifers like me if you are in fact the 2nd biggest TEFL course provider (i to i TEFL claim 15,000 last year), how academically respectable TI is and is considered to be is more important than how your customers feel. As such, you will get criticism from disinterested people like me until you can answer our questions under our criteria.”
This is spot on Alex, and for me, the only reason that I bother to post. On another thread you’ve started a discussion about the profession of TESOL and much of our discussion here with Bruce is directly linked quite closely to that. There have been dodgy English language institutes for as long as I can remember, but I’m absolutely appalled that , for the past ten years or so, some companies have had the audacity to cross over into the actual ‘training’ of teachers. To me and many others, this is crossing the line. Not to mention that it has darn near thrown the entire ELT industry into the gutter. Just look at the way TI markets courses – let’s try that with another profession and see how absurd it is: Take a 3 month adventure holiday in Thailand and get a free certificate in nursing ( don’t worry we’ve got a few advisors that occasionally get together).
So what is it that we’ve learned from our series of posts?
That for nearly a year TI claimed to meet the BC criteria but that their certificates are not accepted by the BC, that they claim to be supervised by a board (which Alex has pointed out is not one at all), that they claim to be validated by CMU TEFL (yet their trainers at CMU only have an entry-level qualifications that are not appropriate for teacher training) and the lists goes on and on and on and on. In short, I believe that TI is nothing more than the world’s largest provider of smoke, mirrors and double speak. Honestly, I believe that if Bruce worked for McDonalds, he would probably try to make an argument for everyone to eat more fries because potatoes are healthy, have a lot of fiber and are rich in potassium. He is a true master of spin and I give him a lot of credit for that.
So where do we go from here? Rather than let things fade away into the blog graveyard it would be nice see some form of transformative action (in the manner of Paulo Freire and others). I believe that there are many teachers and trainers that are fed up with TI and who believe that this company is giving TEFL a bad name. So as a community of professionals, here are some things that we can do:
1. Contact Dave Sperling at Dave’s ESL Café. If you believe that TI is giving TEFL a bad name then tell him so and ask him to get some different sponsors. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of TI’s customers come from that site, so that would be hitting TI in the wallet. You can contact Dave here:
http://www.eslcafe.com/contact.html
2. Do not purchase any books, especially course books, by anyone who sits on TI’s BOAA. If your school currently uses any textbooks written by members of TI’s Board, pick a good alternative and suggest changing books with your course coordinator. Bruce has mentioned that the Board includes David Nunan, Alan Maley and Marc Helgesen. More info available on the TI website.
3. Email two of your closest friends in TEFL and urge them to do the same.
4. Put a link on your blog or website to Alex’s series of interviews with Bruce V
November 23rd, 2008 at 4:03 pm
TEFLista, what an utter load of CRAP.
First of all, Alex or any of you, I dare you to find how we are in any way inferior to a CELTA academically. Come sit with Dave Hopkins for an hour and discuss TESOL training. To even SUGGEST we do not know what we are doing or are some kind of scam is just silly.
You attack our marketing. Why? because we have multiple websites? GIVE ME SPECIFICS.
You attack the Special Thai Project. But you fail to give any justification to this attack as well. Because it includes training and a four-month job? By your (absolutely ridiculous) rational, no four-week training course should exist. OK, so you better start complaining about EVERY CELTA/Trinity/Other course out there. After all, ANYONE who finishes a training course is going to get a job. With the STP they get ongoing academic support from their trainers.
And then, come meet the people who take the project. You will find that they are, generally, the best and the brightest of the US. Canada and UK. I am proud that I have given many of these people a good, structured, and affordable opportunity to travel and teach in Thailand.
Then go walk into the staff room in a typical school in BKK. You will find a dangerously high percentage of burned out, chain smoking losers who are working as an English teacher simply because they have nowhere else to go. No other job opportunities anywhere. I pity their students.
Now lets take a look at your other statemensts one at a time:
“That for nearly a year TI claimed to meet the BC criteria but that their certificates are not accepted by the BC”
WRONG. Only a few months ago did BC ask for additional documentation and that documentation has now been provided.
“That they claim to be supervised by a board (which Alex has pointed out is not one at all)”
You do speakand understand English, right? Look up “Board” in the dictionary and get back to me. its not difficult. Alex disagrees with the term. Fair enough. But it IS a board, whether Alex (or you) agrees or not.
“that they claim to be validated by CMU TEFL”
We are actually validated by more than one university and currently actively work with over 10 on a full-time basis. if you want the CMU validation letter I can scan it. And, Alex, you may want to visit a few of the NATIONAL universities we partner with in Korea. The lunatic fringe excluded, TI is extremely well respected in higher educational circles which is one of the reasons we continue to obtain contracts through governments and universities to train non-native teachers.
“(yet their trainers at CMU only have an entry-level qualifications that are not appropriate for teacher training)”
No, you made assumptions. You did not see itlisted so you assumed it did not exist. You even claimed that when CMU did a major overhaul of their entire website it was all because of YOU. What an EGO you have there.
I called Dr. Kay to ask about Tony’s credentials myself. He has a diploma. Or the word of the PhD who oversees the program is not good enough for you? Perhaps he is under qualified? LOL
“and the lists goes on and on and on and on.”
Really? Its SOOO typical. What list are we talking about. The one that you just listed and is completely inaccurate? LOL We did that. Its baseless. But if you have more, BRING IT ON!
“In short, BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA”
Just a complete load of RUBBISH. A waste of everyone’s time.
Alex, how’s this. I will pay for your trip to Thailand and you can spend a week meeting Dave, meeting me, meeting Mike, talking to trainees, discussing our course. Then write, obviously, anything you want to write. I can tell you what you will find:
1. A very qualified staff of professionals
2. An excellent course that might not be exactly like a CELTA but has a strong academic foundation
3. A group of trainees that really enjoy the course.
But lets face it, even that will not shut up the army of… 5? 10? MAX 20. They just cannot shut the hell up. Ever. And they seem to have a “thing” for me and TEFL International. Jealousy? Mental problems? Complete lack of female companionship? My vote is for all of the above.
November 23rd, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Bruce wrote:
“I called Dr. Kay to ask about Tony’s credentials myself. He has a diploma. Or the word of the PhD who oversees the program is not good enough for you? Perhaps he is under qualified?”
Funny how that dipolma just suddenly appeared out the blue, isn’t it, Bruce? Yes, I do think he is unqualified and I don’t believe for a second that he actually has a real PhD. If you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, please tell us all about it so that we can look up his dissertation in a dissertation index….
Waiting for your answer…
November 24th, 2008 at 12:42 am
LOL ok here is the deal. If Matt Kay has an PhD you will admit you are wrong, that you hve no evidence whatsoever about the claims you make about TI and go away forever (it needs to be at least as long and detailed as your last diatribe) AND give me your phonenumber so I can personally call you and laugh in your face. If he does not have a PhD I will offer full refunds to every person who has graduated from the TI/CMU program.
Deal?
Come on. You are the guy who knows it all, right?
November 24th, 2008 at 1:11 am
Man, you two are as pig-headed as each other. I thought it was quite clear that Bruce was saying that Tony has a diploma and Matt Kay has a PhD, but Teflista somehow managed to misread it. He then fired off a comment based on that unbelievable misinterpretation, which Bruce then responded to even though it was quite obvious that Teflista wasn’t saying anything about Matt Kay. What is it with you people???
November 24th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Alex, I have been dealing with these idiots for years. My patience with them is long gone. Their SOP is the same:
1. Attack TEFL International
2. When proven to be wrong, ignore it and change the subject.
November 24th, 2008 at 1:41 am
Bruce
While your feelings are understandable and acting on those feelings is perhaps understandable too, name calling and posting comments before thinking is hardly helping you make your case that TI is an organisation that is professional (which for me is virtually the same thing as “institutional”) rather than personal. You are right that the attacks don’t change, but one of the factors that makes that so must surely be your reactions.
PS before this little spat started there were some interesting things said, and I will respond to them once I finish today’s lessons
November 24th, 2008 at 1:45 am
Its been3 years and I am quite certain they are the same 5 people posting the same things over and over. I tried polite the first year. It failed. I tried ignoring for a year. That failed, too.
I appreciate your suggestions but as long as IDIOTS post CRAP on the internet about me and TI I am going to call them on it.
November 24th, 2008 at 1:49 am
As it seems to be stopping the attacks and raising the reputation of your organisation, why would you stop?
November 24th, 2008 at 1:55 am
And the alternative?
Hire ninjas?
I am out of options.
November 24th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
If you are the CEO of the biggest Tefl providers, how come you have so much time chatting on the internet? Maybe you should talk to BC, improve your curriculum, or you do not have anything to improve??? How odd!!!
November 24th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
I usually check discussion boards for about 3 hours per week. In this instance I had to be told the discussion was going on.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Some serious pruning off comments above just completed, mainly of discussions that went nowhere, finished in a dead end or were unrelated to the original interview. Hopefully I have been even handed in deleting and editing almost everyone’s comments!
November 26th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Here you are, Bruce. Just to jog your memory, as you said that I had never even bothered to get in touch with you, when in fact I gave you a whole page to yourself some six months ago.
On Wed, 18/6/08, The Tefl Tradesman wrote:
From: The Tefl Tradesman
Subject: [The TEFL Tradesman] Bruce Veldhuisen Puts His Case
To: teflsandy@yahoo.ie
Date: Wednesday, 18 June, 2008, 12:22 PM
Bruce Veldhuisen, CEO at Tefl International, has been in touch with me several times recently. It would appear that he’s none too happy with some of the seedier accusations about him and his TEFL racket that have been surfacing on this blog.
Of course, I did point out to him that the ‘TEFL’ at the top of this blog stands for “Telling Enormous Fuggin’ Lies”, but he has not ceased his harassment of Sandy one bit. So, in order to square things up a little, and to fill a bit of empty space in the day, here is a selection of some of Bruce’s choicest words (all much too polite, by the way – you really should learn to show your anger, Brucie!)…
Dear Sandy,
[EDITED- so we don't have to debate the content]
–
Posted By The Tefl Tradesman to The TEFL Tradesman at 6/18/2008 12:10:00 PM
REMEMBER NOW, BRUCE?
November 28th, 2008 at 4:26 am
Alex:
Could you please provide a very brief summary of what the whole TW thing was about? There are probably many readers, myself included, who are not familiar with what happened.
November 28th, 2008 at 7:51 am
Sorry, but nooooooo way I am stirring up that can of worms again. Try googling TEFL Watch or searching here for that or “TEFL soap opera”
November 28th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Sandy, you posted my comments only after I contacted you and long after you had originally posted some very inaccurate information. While I do appreciate the fact that you allowed me to have my say (lesser men just figure it is their blog and eliminate all dissenting information) the fact that you posted it at all,and left it up for months, without first contacting me for a response does not exactly make you a champion if fairness.
November 28th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Bruce:
Could you please tell us about Dr. Kay’s qualifications? Got the name of the university where he did his PhD and the title of his dissertation for us?
November 29th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Why doesn’t TEFLISTA mail Dr Kay in person if he is so sure that the man is masquerading as something he ain’t?
ZOOMINFO lists the following
International Programs Director, Dr. Matthew John Kay has been teaching academic English and thesis writing at the Language Institute since 2004.A lecturer in the Department of Philosophy at CMU, he also teaches European philosophy in the Faculty of Social Sciences’ Ph.D. program.
http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/ReferencesView.aspx?PersonID=1181137657
So TEFLISTA? What are your quals? You seem to profess a very in depth knowledge of this industry!
November 29th, 2008 at 9:28 am
TEFLista, are you taking my proposition?
LOL
Oh the joys of being a smart alack know-it-all using an anonymous username on the internet.
November 29th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Doug:
I don’t see the name of a university for that degree or a dissertation title in any of that. Anyone can say that they have one – especially in Thailand. And if someone did email them, would they say yes? I’ve met many people at universities in Thailand with degrees that they don’t have and some are even quite open and honest about it, but I doubt that would be the case here.
I think that it’s quite clear from Bruce’s post, that he doesn’t even know the qualifications of some of his own trainers that are right under his own nose and in his own back yard. Why does Bruce even need to call Dr Kay in the first place and why did he wait to do this now when the trainer’s qualifications were pointed out months ago (btw you can get a diploma in 8 weeks, so he may have picked one up during the interim – or not, but it’s quite clear that he was working with only a cert and in Part Two Bruce condoned such practices). Also, how many full-time lead trainers does TI have in Thailand? Maybe 3, with one working in Bruce’s own building and the other being Mike. What’s the matter? Bruce can’t count to 1? Or let me guess, he’s trying to pass the buck again and say that the paperwork is in Antarctica.
Anyway, Thailand is full of fake degrees and every four months or so another article pops ups somewhere about them. The last one that happen to pass by my eyes was written by Ken May, the same person who wrote about Bruce in the Bangkok Post. May’s article appeared as a special supplement to the BKK Post, in a special university edition. Here’s part of what he had to say:
——————————————————————————————-
Let’s admit it from the beginning. Fake degrees are common place in Thailand…
Education can be a very profitable business, so schools often play a compliant role in this deceit in hopes of gaining competitive advantage…
The demand for teachers is high…
I have spent four years teaching in Thailand with my authentic master’s degree. It surprises me, however, that I have never been requested to show authorities anything but a Xerox copy…
————————————————————————————————–
The article had nothing to do with TI, but it contained several pictures of various fake diplomas. Ironically, one of them was a fake TEFL International Certificate issued to Vladimir Lenin!
Ajarn, a popular educational blog in Thailand (where Bruce also trawls for an hour a day), has a story about this too. There the author believes that 30% of teachers in Thailand are working with fake documents:
http://www.ajarn.com/Banter/degreedilemma.htm
Bruce:
Still waiting…
November 30th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Dumbdumb, I issued the challenge. Are you going to take it or not? Its that simple. Either PUT UP or… well, you know the rest.
I know a great deal about Matt Kay and his life. A very interesting (and very successful) fellow. He has done things that most of us would only dream of. And I am not about to go publishing personal details about him on a blog.
I have not visited the ajarn.com site in at least a month. Probably 2 or 3. But TEFLista knows all…. LOL
November 30th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Great customer service, Bruce. Is that what you tell people who ask about the qualifications of your trainers and managers? Very professional.
I still see no answer.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:09 am
Doug:
Here’s an earlier version of what you posted that was reported to the public for years. Due to heavy advertising, including on Ajarn, this is more than common knowledge:
Who are the CMU team? /
TEFL Certificate Course Chiang Mai University – About Us
Dr. Matthew John Kay (Matt)
International Programs Director
Nationality: Australian
Email: mattkay@teflcmu.com
Education: BA (Hons) Philosophy, Ph.D, University of Queensland, Australia.
Brief Bio:
TEFL Certificate Program Director Dr. Matthew John Kay has been teaching academic English and thesis writing at the Language Institute since 2004. A special instructor in philosophy, he also lectures in European philosophy for the Department of Sociology’s Ph.D program in sustainable development.
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:09 am
Anyone else bored with this whole Matt Kay discussion and want me to delete both sides of the argument?
December 3rd, 2008 at 4:59 am
Below is the response I received from a reference librarian at the University of Queensland:
From: AskALibrarian@oclc.org
Subject: Library Question – Answer [Question #4001340]
Hello T
Thank you for contacting Ask a Librarian.
I could not find a dissertation for Matthew John Kay but there is one for a Matthew Howell Kay in 2001.
Author Kay, Matthew Howell.
Title Geostatistical integration of conventional and downhole geophysical data in the metalliferous mine environment / by Matthew Howell Kay.
If you need further information you can contact the UQ Graduate School http://www.uq.edu.au/grad-school/
Kind regards
Liz Reaves
December 3rd, 2008 at 6:42 am
A lot of this started on TW. For those of you curious teflwatch.com is up and going with the forum. Since so much debate is now he said, she said, I think it might be a good idea to make all the TI threads visible once again. You can see for yourself where Bruce admits to firing working and replacing them with cheap trainees and much, much more.
I’d think it’d be in everyone’s best benefit to let these things drop and keep me and TW out of it, but if Bruce continues to do this and doesn’t make a public apology, then I guess he thinks it’s a good idea to let all the threads go back…..
Maybe teflwatch can have a new forum devoted solely to TEFL International discussions.
December 8th, 2008 at 10:21 am
[EDITED]
Matt Kay–he does not have anything to do with running the TESOL course so if he dropped out of school in the third grade it would have nothing to do with the TESOL course and I would have no reason to tell trainees. Nor would they care.
[EDITED- this thread is not about TW, if it ever does come up again you can all go and comment there]
December 8th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Bruce wrote:
—————–
I called Dr. Kay to ask about Tony’s credentials myself. [Tony is the lead TEFL trainer at CMU]. He [now] has a diploma. Or the word of the PhD who oversees the program is not good enough for you? Perhaps he is under qualified? LOL
If he does not have a PhD I will offer full refunds to every person who has graduated from the TI/CMU program.
…at the request of the British Council, their International Studies department oversees our Board of Academic Advisors and their monthly moderation of our courses…
TEFL International is validated by CMU …if you want the CMU validation letter I can scan it…
Now Bruce says:
——————-
Matt Kay–he does not have anything to do with running the TESOL course so if he dropped out of school in the third grade it would have nothing to do with the TESOL course and I would have no reason to tell trainees. Nor would they care.
Sorry, Bruce, but you’ve been caught with your pants down and have now made a complete fool of yourself.
December 8th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
The last 10 comments, from both sides, have been mainly insults and have added zero information, therefore comments are blocked. You have all, including Bruce, therefore lost one of the last places that had the patience to publish your comments. I hope everyone is equally unhappy with that result.
Please do not move the discussion onto other posts, or your comments will be marked as spam.